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Peter King: Browns trading up for Russell

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Peter King: Browns trading up for Russell

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:32 am

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... index.html

I think a week from today, there's a very good chance one of the big stories in the NFL will be rampant speculation (now there's a change from everything in the world of pro football) that Cleveland wants to trade up from No. 3 to No. 1 in the first round to try to draft Russell. GM Phil Savage has known Russell since his freshman year in high school in Mobile, Ala., and loves the kid. I'm told Savage has not been ordered by owner Randy Lerner to take a quarterback.


Not new news, but man, really seems like the Browns are hell-bent on taking a QB, and namely JaMarcus.

What is the pricetag to move to #1? Our 2nd this year and our 1st next year? ouch.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:35 am

Cue Bow-hoodoo.

But before that let's add a little perspective to this piece of crap.

there's a very good chance one of the big stories in the NFL will be rampant speculation (now there's a change from everything in the world of pro football) that Cleveland wants to trade up from No. 3 to No. 1 in the first round to try to draft Russell.


And why would that speculation occur? Because some fool writes a nationale piece starting a rumor that will gather legs and take on a life of its own. This is garbage journalism. He doesn't even have the guts to say it's gonna happen or even likely to happen. He's just starting the rumor that will cause the rampant speculation that he predicts.

Dude needs a better editor.
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:46 am

I think its BS. It may make a team more hesitant to trade with Detroit if they think we'll move to #1 to get the player they would want.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:55 am

I sure hope it is BS.

There is abso-fuckin-lutely no reason to trade up from #3 to #1 in this draft. None. We could use any four of JaMarcus, Brady, A Pete or Thomas, and two are guaranteed to be there at #3.

To blow your 2nd rounder this year and likely a 1st rounder in 2008 would be mind-boggling, especially when the talk on these boards is we could get our franchise back in the 1st round next year.

I want Russell or Quinn with the first pick, but not THAT much. I think it is likely that one of those two will be there when we pick #3, so we sure as hell better not trade up.
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:58 am

I agree with everything you said except for the Lady Quinn part :mrgreen:
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Unread postby Guest » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:03 pm

I just listened to the Rizzo show on WKNR and there is a report from an NFL writer stating that Lerner has told Phil they "have" to draft a QB.

Who knows how much BS it is but it's out there.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:06 pm

FightDr wrote:I just listened to the Rizzo show on WKNR and there is a report from an NFL writer stating that Lerner has told Phil they "have" to draft a QB.


Okay. Now, I know I have pined for Lerner to get more actively involved with this team....but this is NOT the way I wanted him to do it.

Telling your football people what to do with the 1st pick is assinine. But, then again, have we come to expect anything else with this franchise? The Browns have all the money, but no brains. The Indians have all the brains and no money. Hopefully the Cavaliers can save us! :-) :smile: :)
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:11 pm

The Indians have all the brains and no money.


settle down

I dont see Lerner doing this, and if so he wont hold the coach or gm accountable for '07


This may be the worst smokescreen ever. Savage has never been high on taking QB's early and Lerner has never got into playing GM.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:39 pm

The Indians have all the brains and no money


It sure took a lot of brains to spend 25% of your FA budget on a guy who will never see the field.

Okay. Now, I know I have pined for Lerner to get more actively involved with this team....but this is NOT the way I wanted him to do it.


Then how do you want him involved? This is exactly what happens when fans start insisting the ownership take on a bigger voice. The fans begged for Randy to get involved, and now that he does, they complain about how he gets involved. I have no doubt that Randy has issued some sort of edict to Phil to get something done with the QB position and that is all Phil needed to hear to go hard after the guy he would want.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:52 pm

The first thing would be to have Lerner actually around during the season, and not screwing around with his Polo team or whatever the fuck it is he owns in Europe.

But, by no means are the fans demanding Lerner become Jerry Jones and start making the picks for this team. people want him visible, and more in touch with the team. Not distant and uninterested as he has appeared the past few years.
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:00 pm

Consigliere wrote:The first thing would be to have Lerner actually around during the season, and not screwing around with his Polo team or whatever the fuck it is he owns in Europe.

But, by no means are the fans demanding Lerner become Jerry Jones and start making the picks for this team. people want him visible, and more in touch with the team. Not distant and uninterested as he has appeared the past few years.


As long as his checks clear I could give 2 shits if he's around or not
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:28 pm

FightDr wrote:I just listened to the Rizzo show on WKNR and there is a report from an NFL writer stating that Lerner has told Phil they "have" to draft a QB.

Who knows how much BS it is but it's out there.


Not to change the subject for a second, but I've tried to listen to Rizzo three times since he's been on. As soon as I hear WEEEEEEEEE from either him or one of his callers I just can't take it. Holy cow is WKNR about the most mis-managed radio station of all time.
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Unread postby Guest » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:43 pm

I usually don't listen that much either.
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:19 pm

Cue Bow-hoodoo.

Oh, sure. Nothing gets me tooting my own horn like a blurb that promises:

1. A very good chance at
2. A speculative news story
3. In the nearish future
4. Saying we want to trade up for JMR

I already know we want to trade up for JMR. I don't need Peter King to tip-toe around it to make me feel more secure. ; )
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Unread postby swerb » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:47 am

Two months ago, I was convinced Russell and Quinn would be the first two picks. Then I backed off that a little.

Now, just 5 weeks before the draft, Im again convinced the 2 QBs go #1 and #2 just like the Manning/Leaf year.

Im not sure if it will be Oak and Det making the picks ... but I do feel these two guys go in the top two slots. I also believe Phil wants the QB. Hes committed to this thing in the long term, has to know CF and DA are not the answers, and also has to figure this is his last shot to get an elite signal caller.

It's going to out the Browns in an interesting spot, and make the beginning of ESPN's draft coverage very dramatic.

Secretly, Phil is likely praying that someone trades up to get Calvin Johnson. If that doesn't happen, he doesn't trade up, and the QBs go 1 & 2 ... I think you will see a move down.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:52 am

If that plays out (and I agree that it will) and we trade down and do not select Joe Thomas, Phil needs microfracture on his head.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:54 am

I think a QB is definitely in the plans.

They haven't really attempted to sign a QB in FA. If they were truly going to stick with Frye, they would gobble up one of the FA vets that were available this offseason. There are still lots for the taking, but I think the Browns are in a holding pattern on signing a FA vet QB until after the draft.

To me, that points to a QB being the likely target with the 1st pick. If they take Quinn/Russell they can keep Frye or DA as the backup and most likely the starter for the first half of the season.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:48 pm

This is what I see. Phil does not believe that the QB position is a must upgrade. What he wants out of that position is to manage a game. The intention of this team is never going to be a big play, strike down the field at your free will offense. It will be a run the ball, control the clock type. You do not need Brady Quinn or Jemarcus Russell to do that.

Can Frye win in this league by having limited duties? I don't think we know FOR SURE yet. I think (maybe hope is a better word), the plan is to build the interior of this team this year. They are going to run the ever loving shit out of 8-ball, and see if Charlie can handle being a manager.

Any way you look at it, the result is going to be the winner of the Frye/Anderson shit-the-bed-off be the QB of this team for this season. With the city, fans and ownership in the highest of frenzies to see an improvement, the addition of a QB who may or may not take a snap this year is out of the question.

If Joe Thomas is there, he is the pick. If Joe Thomas is gone, it is Adrian Peterson. The rest of the draft will be d-line, a corner, and athletic guys they can move around a little bit.
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Unread postby BadBecks » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:51 pm

Remember, this time of year just about every team is trying to throw some kind of BS out there on the wall to see what sticks. I wouldn't flip out just yet.

Though if the Browns were to think of drafting a QB, I'd do it this year instead of next.
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Unread postby Guest » Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:31 pm

The reason they didn't address a QB is because there weren't any out there that would be that big of an upgrade.

I don't think they take a QB in the 1st unless they move down and one of the those 2 guys are there(which isn't likely to happen)
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:53 pm

Oh come on. Trent Green would be a huge upgrade himself, and I am hardly a Green fan.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:06 pm

I would meet the last two posts halfway, there are upgrades out there, they just aren't so great that you can't get them after the draft situation is settled. They HAVE to know Chaz isn't the answer, don't they?
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:13 pm

They HAVE to know Chaz isn't the answer, don't they?


It depends on the question.

If the question is can he elevate one of the least talented units in all of the NFL, then that answer is no.

If the question is can he lead a team with a great running game, a competent receiving corp and a strong defense to the playoffs, then that answer is we don't know.

The problem is he has still not been provided the other pieces to establish a definite answer. Most do not expect the Browns to compete for the Super Bowl next year. Would Brady Quinn change that? JeMarcus Russell? No. What they can do this year is lay the groundwork for a run in 2008. If they find that he is still not close to the right answer, a veteran, when the crop has to be better than Trent Green, will be available going into 2008.
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Unread postby Guest » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:22 pm

Trent Green coming off of a pretty serious injury???
No thanks
He would have been moved already if he was wanted so bad somewhere.

I don't know if we have a good QB or not but why give up picks or players for an old or average guy for only 1 or 2 years?
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Unread postby Birdieman » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:36 pm

Most do not expect the Browns to compete for the Super Bowl next year. Would Brady Quinn change that? JeMarcus Russell? No. What they can do this year is lay the groundwork for a run in 2008.


Selecting Quinn or Russell is exactly what Phil needs to do to make a run in 2008. Waiting til next year only prolongs it another year. 2007 is the year one of those two sits and learns a la Palmer.

He's mentioned more than one way to approach the QB position in the NFL. Yes, he's mentioned a QB like Frye who can just manage a game when surround by greater parts. But that's been his only choice in the last 2 years. Let's call it the Dilfer Method of getting to the Super Bowl.

But Phil's also said that if you don't have a Franchise QB, you should never pass one up if he's available. Obviously Phil knows he doesn't have that because he mentioned the thought of trading up last year for one of the Big 3 QB's in the draft. Let's call it the Franchise Method. So why mention the FM if he thinks the only way to go is the DM?

If you look back at his past 2 offseasons, he's had no chances at the FM, so he's been hoping that he'd get lucky enough for the DM to work. By shopping Frye this offseason, it's pretty clear that he prefers the FM now that he's looking at that opportunity point blank. He's simply at a severe disadvantage in this division with McNair, Palmer and Big Ben and I don't see him letting this opportunity pass him up.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:51 pm

Selecting Quinn or Russell is exactly what Phil needs to do to make a run in 2008.


Because the 2nd year QB theory has been proven to be a Super Bowl ticket?

If you look back at his past 2 offseasons, he's had no chances at the FM


He has had the same option to trade up in each of the last two drafts, just like he does in this one. I would have been much more inclined to trade up for Young or Linehart last year, than Quinn or Russell this year. The cost to go from 3 to 1 is a lot higher (800 points) than to go from 12 to 9 (150 points) last year.

This was all in response to Russell and Quinn going 1 and 2. If they do, I really cannot see this team, with so many holes, giving up draft picks to move up 1 or 2 spots to get a QB, just because he is a QB. If one of them falls, and he decides to take one, I will not be pissed, though I still prefer Joe Thomas. I see the value in it. My only problem comes if they trade up.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:52 pm

2007 is the year one of those two sits and learns a la Palmer


You really think this regime can afford to have its #1 pick sit out a season? If we are playing Frye either way, why wouldn't you pick someone that is going to help your team this year? If they take JeMarcus Quinn, he will play.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:00 pm

Pup wrote:
2007 is the year one of those two sits and learns a la Palmer


You really think this regime can afford to have its #1 pick sit out a season? If we are playing Frye either way, why wouldn't you pick someone that is going to help your team this year? If they take JeMarcus Quinn, he will play.


They may have to. As much as the fans want an instant winner, a plan needs to be put in place to get this team competitive in 2-3 years and be able to sustain it. No more quick fix bandaid attempts with FAs. While they have signed a lot of FAs, most have been young with potential upside....we may be gearing for a run in 2008, which is what this team has to do. If we win in 2007, fine...but I've written the season off as the last developmental year as long as they go with that.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:03 pm

It would takw 2 weeks for this city to start holding parades for Quinn or Russell to take over for Quinn. If they take one of them, they will start. If not the opener, week 3.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:54 pm

Pup wrote:
They HAVE to know Chaz isn't the answer, don't they?


It depends on the question.

If the question is can he elevate one of the least talented units in all of the NFL, then that answer is no.

If the question is can he lead a team with a great running game, a competent receiving corp and a strong defense to the playoffs, then that answer is we don't know.

The problem is he has still not been provided the other pieces to establish a definite answer. Most do not expect the Browns to compete for the Super Bowl next year. Would Brady Quinn change that? JeMarcus Russell? No. What they can do this year is lay the groundwork for a run in 2008. If they find that he is still not close to the right answer, a veteran, when the crop has to be better than Trent Green, will be available going into 2008.


The answer to both will be no. If you are going to run the ball and play defense the very last thing you can have is a guy who will make poor decisions. I've seen enough.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:20 pm

The answer to both will be no. If you are going to run the ball and play defense the very last thing you can have is a guy who will make poor decisions. I've seen enough.


I am not saying the answer is a definite yes. I am saying it is difficult to judge as of today. He has made poor decisions. So has every QB in the game. The difference is good quarterbacks have more talent around them to help cover for those mistakes. He threw a lot of interceptions last year, but enough of them were on balls that should have been made by the people he was throwing to.

The int in the endzone against Crackmore was a bad decision, but if the defense steps up and stops them, it becomes forgotten.

If Russell or Quinn fall in our lap and that is what Phil decides is the biggest need, then go ahead. I just think by week 4, we will be complaining about the offensive line.

Is Shafer, Steinbach, Fraley, Grubbs and Tucker really that much better than out line was last year? I don't think it is. Now insert a stud LT, shift Shafer to the right side. I think that is the biggest impact in this draft. Better offensive line play improves every facet of your team.

If we are really going to let one of the QB's sit for a year and play Frye anyway, how is this team going to be better?
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Unread postby jb » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:42 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:
Pup wrote:
They HAVE to know Chaz isn't the answer, don't they?


It depends on the question.

If the question is can he elevate one of the least talented units in all of the NFL, then that answer is no.

If the question is can he lead a team with a great running game, a competent receiving corp and a strong defense to the playoffs, then that answer is we don't know.

The problem is he has still not been provided the other pieces to establish a definite answer. Most do not expect the Browns to compete for the Super Bowl next year. Would Brady Quinn change that? JeMarcus Russell? No. What they can do this year is lay the groundwork for a run in 2008. If they find that he is still not close to the right answer, a veteran, when the crop has to be better than Trent Green, will be available going into 2008.


The answer to both will be no. If you are going to run the ball and play defense the very last thing you can have is a guy who will make poor decisions. I've seen enough.


Pipe you speak for me as well. Chuck is NFL illiterate, slow to get the ball out, and reckless in decision making.

But he has a below average arm, so that doesn't make up for it. :P :-P :razz:

DA is the guy among the two. Ray Charles can see he's the better of the two when they play. More reps and maybe he can cut down his TO's, but I doubt it.

Peeps forget that Frye has what, 20 NFL starts? He's no rookie and he shows no improvement. I'd like to keep him as a backup tho. Maybe in 3 years he can do something.

You shouldn't rush 3rd round project QB's. Charlie was partially a casualty of the Dilfer - Carthon feud IMhO.
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Unread postby swerb » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:02 pm

Derek Anderson, people forget, that Tampa game ... he made a couple bad throws, but IIRC, two of the four picks were deflections.

The there games before that, the win at home vs KC, and the losses at Pit and Bal, the kid played solid.

If DA ends that Tampa game 14-27 with 2 INTs instead of 10-27 with 4 INTs, which really is what should have happened, then his numbers look pretty damn good in a quarter season against some tough foes. And I think people have a somewhat different opinion of him.

But Im with you guys. If things stay as is, my $$$ is on DA to start the opener.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:15 pm

I only mention Frye, because he was the starter to begin and end the season. This wasn't about picking which current QB is better, it was about the draft.

Frye fit the discussion. If I edit my above posts to Anderson instead, does that change the opinions of what I am saying?
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Unread postby swerb » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:22 pm

Pup wrote:I only mention Frye, because he was the starter to begin and end the season. This wasn't about picking which current QB is better, it was about the draft.

Frye fit the discussion. If I edit my above posts to Anderson instead, does that change the opinions of what I am saying?

Not really.
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Unread postby jb » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:13 am

Swerb wrote:
Pup wrote:I only mention Frye, because he was the starter to begin and end the season. This wasn't about picking which current QB is better, it was about the draft.

Frye fit the discussion. If I edit my above posts to Anderson instead, does that change the opinions of what I am saying?

Not really.


Slightly.

Charlie didn't show me flashes of shit in 2006 to make me think he'd ever be a decent QB. Ever. Not one.

DA made some Billy Graham mistakes (he made 70K poeple stand up and yell "JESUS CHRIST!") , but he also showed he could throw to a spot, could read a D, had a pocket presence and a good release. DA showed a modicum of something vaguely related to promise.

Frye was Ron Pawlus.

Concur neither is the asnwer.

Butt.....

I am of the belief drafting a QB later than round one is foolish. A 3rd round QB is bottom barrell while a 3rd round OG propsect may be the 3rd or 4th best in the draft.

Go franchise potential QB or sign a vet (even a developing young vet that another team has already invested the time in) . Drafting your own QB in round 3 or later is a waste.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:57 am

Frye fit the discussion. If I edit my above posts to Anderson instead, does that change the opinions of what I am saying


No. They're both backups. Delaying the inevitable of getting a legit starting QB will continue to set us back. This is the perfect year to get a QB because he can sit and learn since we aren't going to the playoffs anyway. Frye will be gone because Chud wants a bigger arm that can go vertical with his running game. DA is ultimately a backup as well, but I see him starting the season as #1 in any case that doesn't involve Schaub who I believe is Phil's 3rd option.

You get very few chances to select a Franchise Guy. Phil won't let it pass if one falls to him. He'll get JR or BQ w/o trading up because anybody trading up with DET will want CJ. He's just gonna have to call DET's bluff on this and trust me.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:11 pm

By the way, Frye will not stick as a back-up. He might bounce around a bit, but your established back-ups are usually heady type guys who help with the offense, and help break down defensive schemes. Chaz isn't that guy.
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