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Phil's Excellent FA Adventure...

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Phil's Excellent FA Adventure...

Unread postby Birdieman » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:48 am

In lieu of missing out on his prized CB, Phil has adjusted extremely well to take the pressure off come draft day. With just one major signing in Steinbach, Phil has upgraded at several other huge areas of need.

1) Lewis-younger, more motivated, faster, and more capable in short yardage than RD for similar money.

2) Steinbach-a huge upgrade at G or T.

3) Shaun Smith-depth, and maybe a future fixture at NT.

4) Peek-pass rusher off the edge at least, maybe a decent early on with experience in this defense.

5) Robaire Smith-a large upgrade over McKinley.

6) McKinley-probably better than any G we had last year. Insurance at C if LCB can't come back. At the very least youthful depth.

7) Carter-legit outside speed which we haven't had to keep safeties honest. A new dimension that could occasionally open things up for Lewis, KWII, and BE. A nice 3rd or 4th WR to be sure.

8) Fraley-a wash from last year, but between he and McKinney we're at least covered up with solid vets

9) Wright-bleh.

I went into this offseason thinking Phil needed a NT, OLB, CB, C, QB, RB, 2 DE's, 2 Guards and a T. That's 11 pretty big holes on a bad team. Obviously he couldn't get good/great players at each of those spots.

But so far he's filled 5 big holes with Average, experienced guys that every team has-even good teams. He's improved us at RB from Average to Good with Lewis. And he's improved us from Awful to Great at Guard, maybe Tackle.

What's that leave as glaring holes? Well QB and CB are still desparate needs, with RT and DE close behind. But does anybody wanna bet against QB and CB as our first 2 picks?
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Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:31 am

But does anybody wanna bet against QB and CB as our first 2 picks?


I do!!!!!!! Well not really bet, but disagree.

The biggest need is still a tackle.

Joe Thomas Eric Steinbach Hank Fraley Ryan Tucker Kevin Shafer

Now that is an o-line that you can go to war with. I still hope they go guard in round 2 and eliminate Ryan Tucker from the picture.

McKiney, Tucker and Sowels as your o-line depth.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:13 am

The biggest need is still a tackle.

Joe Thomas Eric Steinbach Hank Fraley Ryan Tucker Kevin Shafer


I hear ya. And lots will still make the case for AP #1. But as for JT, I think that's the reason Phil wanted Steinbach so bad-because he could play LT. Now he's not in a position where he HAS to take an OT in the first 2 rounds. And if Tucker can play this year ES can stay at G. If not we're covered.

Everything Phil's done is pointing to BQ or JR should they be there IMO. From not addressing QB in FA to shopping Frye which would leave him with no depth at QB to addressing almost every other other position.

Phil's also mentioned that if you don't have a Frnachise QB you can pass one up. Well we don't have one so...
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:24 am

But does anybody wanna bet against QB and CB as our first 2 picks?

I think we're definitely shooting for a first day of QB, OT, and CB, and while I'm not sure we'll pick a CB before an OT, I wouldn't bet against it either.

If I had to guess at our first round board right now, I'd say:

1. JMR
2. Quinn
3. Thomas (with the understanding that one of Kevin Shaffer or LeCharles Bentley will not be on the Cleveland Browns beyond 2007 or at the latest 2008)

Considering the fact that we still don't have a PR, Aaron Ross would make a lot of sense in the 2nd round, but then so would Tony Ugoh if we haven't already selected JT. Of course, we might not be in position to get either of them if we trade up to get JMR like we should.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:32 am

Everything Phil's done is pointing to BQ or JR should they be there IMO


Which they won't be, IMO.

From not addressing QB in FA to shopping Frye


What FA was there to address it, that is no longer there?

with the understanding that one of Kevin Shaffer or LeCharles Bentley will not be on the Cleveland Browns beyond 2007 or at the latest 2008)


I understand LCB, but where is Shaffer going? Isn't he under a pretty long contract?

Of course, we might not be in position to get either of them if we trade up to get JMR like we should.


We can't. There are still too many questionable positions for this team to be giving up draft picks to select a QB, whose only true attribute is arm strength.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:45 am

I think we're definitely shooting for a first day of QB, OT, and CB, and while I'm not sure we'll pick a CB before an OT, I wouldn't bet against it either.


The thought of Daven Holly starting makes it a lock IMO.

(with the understanding that one of Kevin Shaffer or LeCharles Bentley will not be on the Cleveland Browns beyond 2007 or at the latest 2008)


If LCB's healthy, why not? Shaffer is readymade to be a fine RT and his contract has become reasonable with the new cap and salary figures. Actually, the same goes for LCB's contract.

Considering the fact that we still don't have a PR, Aaron Ross would make a lot of sense in the 2nd round, but then so would Tony Ugoh if we haven't already selected JT. Of course, we might not be in position to get either of them if we trade up to get JMR like we should.


:roll :roll: :mrgreen: :lol: :P :-P :razz: :-( :sad: :( :eek: :o :-o :? :-? :???:
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:04 pm

The thought of Daven Holly starting makes it a lock IMO.

But the possibility of Minter starting or maybe even Wright makes it less of a lock when you look at their counterparts at RT, Tucker & Butler.

If LCB's healthy, why not? Shaffer is readymade to be a fine RT and his contract has become reasonable with the new cap and salary figures. Actually, the same goes for LCB's contract.

The addition of Joe Thomas at 3 (or 4), would probably (guessing) mean the addition of the largest contract on our OL yet. I just don't think you can afford to have one of the highest paid LTs in the game, THE highest paid LG in the game, THE(?) highest paid C in the game, AND a RT with a contract like Shaffer's. Take away Bentley (I'd rather not), and maybe, like you say, that contract's reasonable enough to keep an OT tandem like Thomas & Shaffer intact. But I think any line that starts with Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, and LeCharles Bentley is one that demands some cheap labor on the right side--as in a 2nd day pick at RG and more of a bargain RT.

Allow me to interpret/react to your silly emoticons one by one:

Roll eyes = man-of-bird just loves draft trade talk

Mr Green = I don't know WTF Mr Green means--green with envy that you didn't suggest such a brilliant idea first?

Laughing = wait till it happens, mayn

Razz = ???

Sad = don't be. you might not ever get those picks back, but there will always be more in the future

surprised = why? Didn't you read DJK's brilliant article on the front page? ;)

confused = Yeah, I'm still an A-D/P pimp, but it's just not going to happen. Not at 3, not at 4, not at 7, it's just not happening. If I have to accept the fact that we're going QB, I can still push for us to get the right one, can't I?
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:06 pm

I understand LCB, but where is Shaffer going?

Somewhere that Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, and LeCharles Bentley aren't.

We can't.

We have to.

Getting the right QB means a lot more than getting a QB that allows us to keep the rest of our our picks.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:41 pm

Pup wrote:
Everything Phil's done is pointing to BQ or JR should they be there IMO


Which they won't be, IMO.


Probably right. But as in FA, he'll have a QB contingency plan-Schaub is my best guess. He's simply not entering next season with the garbage he had last year as his future.

From not addressing QB in FA to shopping Frye


What FA was there to address it, that is no longer there?


There've been lotsa gettable guys floating around like Plummer, Johnson, Simms, Carr, Schaub, Ramsey, and Harrington who he tried to get last year and costs nothing now. Young guys with potential, vet backup/mentors, former starters etc. But Phil's made only one concerted effort and that was for the Throwin Somoan to replace Dorsey at the bottom.

It can only mean that he's locked and loaded for one of the Franchise guys at the top of the draft. In lieu of that, he goes after Schaub. Unless of course you believe that he believes Anderson's his guy.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:56 pm

There've been lotsa gettable guys floating around like Plummer, Johnson, Simms, Carr, Schaub, Ramsey, and Harrington who he tried to get last year and costs nothing now. Young guys with potential, vet backup/mentors, former starters etc. But Phil's made only one concerted effort and that was for the Throwin Somoan to replace Dorsey at the bottom.

It can only mean that he's locked and loaded for one of the Franchise guys at the top of the draft. In lieu of that, he goes after Schaub. Unless of course you believe that he believes Anderson's his guy.


That is pretty much what I was talking about. All of these guys are still available, and will continue to available for the forseeable future. Johnson and Ramsey are off the board, but neither really struck me as guys they would target. Harrington is a possibility. Simms and Carr will be in the running. The Falcons are not coming off Schaub, so forget that.

So the only guys we can longer get are a 43 year old statue and Ramsey who hasn't been able to cut it in New York or Washington. I am ok with that.

Joseph Harrington is still available, but it does not appear that there is a huge backup in his travel plans and will remain out there, probably until after people see how the draft shakes out.

If Tampa is going to make Simms available, I would be willing to entertain that, but again it is not something that has to be done today by either org. Same with Carr.

I guess all I am saying is, just because they have not done anything to date, does not mean something cannot be done. I just see nothing from Phil that trading up is ever an option, especailly for a QB that 2 months ago most people thought should stay in school.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:59 pm

Somewhere that Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, and LeCharles Bentley aren't.


I have read, multiple times, that AFTER we had Steinbach in tow and it was just down to crossing some t's and dotting some i's, we still made an offer to Dielman (that was pretty close to the one we had Steinbach in the process of signing). It does not appear to me that Phil is adverse to having another big contract on the o-line.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:53 pm

I guess all I am saying is, just because they have not done anything to date, does not mean something cannot be done. I just see nothing from Phil that trading up is ever an option, especailly for a QB that 2 months ago most people thought should stay in school


The fact that Phil hasn't and won't do anything til he sees he can't get JR or BQ is why I'm saying he's targeting those two. If he were targeting AP or JT, he'd already have his QB locked up instead of exposing them to others.

BTW, I'm not a proponoent of trading up for JR. That's Hoo-of-doo's latest crazy draft day trade idea. If you wait a day or two though, he'll have another trade scenario cooked up. Prolly a little sumpin sumpin for his boy Vince Young I'd imagine. :twisted: :evil: :oops: :idea: :arrow: :?: :!:
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