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Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

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Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby aoxo1 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:50 pm

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... cleveland/
There's a very strong rumor in league circles that the Cleveland Browns escorted G.M. George Kokinis out of the building today, the first business day into the team's bye week.

Jay Glazer has heard the same thing, and he'll be posting something soon at FOXSports.com.

For now, it's a rumor -- but a very, very strong one. (Or just "very". We're on the fence about it.)
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Guest » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:56 pm

Glazer's post.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/1031 ... -Cleveland

Rumblings out of Cleveland on Monday suggest that something went down in the front office. But it's unlcear what exactly has happened, if anything.

Several sources told FOXSports.com that general manager George Kokinis was escorted from the building at some point Monday. Two other sources believe that Kokinis has been fired, though another source inside the building maintains he has not heard that.
I'm still trying to get to the bottom of what, if anything, has happened one day after owner Randy Lerner said he was "sick" of losing, but also said he would not fire head coach Eric Mangini this week, the team's bye week.

Let me be clear: I am not reporting that the Browns have fired Kokinis. But with all the buzz I'm hearing out of Cleveland, it appears that something may have gone down on Monday.

Stay tuned...
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Guest » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:58 pm

Problem solved!
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:01 pm

I can think of 11 million reasons why
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:01 pm

Donovan comfirming it as well.

to keep the quote go DEAD HMIFC.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:02 pm

Smoke from the OBR guys as well.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby daddywags » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:04 pm

Wow. Red meat for the fans. But doesn't this just scream "Disfunctional organization" to the rest of the NFL?
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:06 pm

He actually existed?

Holy shit. I thought it was a Captain Tuttle-like ruse by Mangini.

The plastic, protective cup covering the scrotum has been removed. The scrotum is exposed.

Maybe you should pick your own metaphor.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Schruted it » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:08 pm

Confirmed on Channel 3's the Point After. Wow. Bernie rumored to have been in Berea today... I wonder if he is getting a bigger role.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:11 pm

Schruted it wrote:Confirmed on Channel 3's the Point After. Wow. Bernie rumored to have been in Berea today... I wonder if he is getting a bigger role.


dear god no.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:11 pm

Any word on whether Kokinis squeaked his disapproval or wept? Did he grab onto Mangini's leg like Jeff Van Gundy and beg to stay?

And how will anyone know he's gone when you never knew he was there anyway?
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:12 pm

This is hilarious if he is really fired.

Apparently everyone in the press knows this happened but no one is going on record yet.

Anyhow, did Jammies really just boot Mangini's #2 guy to make a statement? I mean wtf does that even change?
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Witty_Moniker » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:15 pm

A bit easier than firing the coach, no?
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:15 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:This is hilarious if he is really fired.

Apparently everyone in the press knows this happened but no one is going on record yet.

Anyhow, did Jammies really just boot Mangini's #2 guy to make a statement? I mean wtf does that even change?


I wanna know who's actually holding the bloody knife.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Guest » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:17 pm

Kosar just spent the last hour or so on Triv's show pimping Dan Gilbert's casino. Not a word about the Browns. Maybe he's not even in the loop.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Schruted it » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:18 pm

Is this the quickest firing of a GM (non-interim) ever?
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:18 pm

Scene: Randy Lerner's Office

Randy: So, Mr. Kokinis, what exactly is it that you do here?

Kokinis: Ummm, well, I do a lot of paperwork. I do a lot of the stuff Mr. Mangini doesn't have time to do and then at the end of the day I report to Mr. Mangini what I did that day. . . Um, I mean Mr. Mangini reports to me.

Lerner: Get out.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:19 pm

GodHatesClevelandSports wrote:Kosar just spent the last hour or so on Triv's show pimping Dan Gilbert's casino. Not a word about the Browns. Maybe he's not even in the loop.

Triv said all they talked about off-air was the Browns, but none of it could be repeated.

"My head is spinning" is all Triv would say.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby mistero » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:20 pm

Bernie was on 850. When asked whether he had the time to coach or be some kind of GM
he said he would make the time if given the position. He doesn't want to be involved in any PR position anymore. He wants a football job.

He also sounded very pro Mangini, very pro DA , and very much full of BS.

Sorta bummed at his interview.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby daddywags » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:22 pm

Great. Bernie Kosar. The guy who swore Charlie Frye would be a fine quarterback.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:22 pm



The only thing thats making the Browns look competent is the fact that the Raiders are still an NFL team (somehow).

what a joke org.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby CP » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:23 pm

justmebd wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSports wrote:Kosar just spent the last hour or so on Triv's show pimping Dan Gilbert's casino. Not a word about the Browns. Maybe he's not even in the loop.

Triv said all they talked about off-air was the Browns, but none of it could be repeated.

"My head is spinning" is all Triv would say.


I'm guessing Bernie is more than in the loop. My expectation is that they name an experienced guy to run the show with Bernie as some director of pro personnel or something to get the same grooming that Ozzie got in Baltimore.

As to what it changes, Mangini went from #1 with only clueless Randy ahead of him. Now he may have 2 people over his head with the authority to can his ass.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby daddywags » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:27 pm

CP wrote:
justmebd wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSports wrote:Kosar just spent the last hour or so on Triv's show pimping Dan Gilbert's casino. Not a word about the Browns. Maybe he's not even in the loop.

Triv said all they talked about off-air was the Browns, but none of it could be repeated.

"My head is spinning" is all Triv would say.


I'm guessing Bernie is more than in the loop. My expectation is that they name an experienced guy to run the show with Bernie as some director of pro personnel or something to get the same grooming that Ozzie got in Baltimore.

As to what it changes, Mangini went from #1 with only clueless Randy ahead of him. Now he may have 2 people over his head with the authority to can his ass.


Just, please, please, tell me it's not Bernie as GM with virtually total control.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby aoxo1 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:27 pm

CP wrote:As to what it changes, Mangini went from #1 with only clueless Randy ahead of him. Now he may have 2 people over his head with the authority to can his ass.

This seems close.

Seems likely that Kok had some kind of authority written into his contract, and since he was just Mangini's lackey it was basically meaningless. Nevertheless, keeping him on would have prevented Lerner from bringing someone in with that same authority who would really exercise it independently.

That's my guess, at least.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby jack_tors » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:31 pm

Because I have connections (my sisters friends brother has a cousin whose is friends with a front office person), I was able to get a video of what occurred in the Browns front office in the Kokinis interview. TCF Exclusive

http://www.fancast.com/movies/Office-Space/22934/681583844/People-Skills/videos
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby mistero » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:32 pm

Donovan asked the panel whether BK was the next GM. Coach Sam said "no". Tony says BK will have an " important paid football job", Dieken says BK isn't ready yet for a pro pers. job.

I still hope against hope that Marty is in the house...(or Casserly or some other very experienced ex-GM).
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby CP » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:35 pm

mistero wrote:Donovan asked the panel whether BK was the next GM. Coach Sam said "no". Tony says BK will have an " important paid football job", Dieken says BK isn't ready yet for a pro pers. job.

I still hope against hope that Marty is in the house...(or Casserly or some other very experienced ex-GM).


I was hoping that Marty got the call this offseason, so I'd be thrilled with that now. Marty is well respected in the league and would be someone, due to his age and reputation, who wouldn't be afraid to show Bernie the ropes. I think Bernie is certainly smart enough to be successful once he has the requisite experience.

For the record, Dieken's commentary during games shows enough to say he has no credibility speaking on anything but mundane in-game color commentary.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby daddywags » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:36 pm

mistero wrote:Donovan asked the panel whether BK was the next GM. Coach Sam said "no". Tony says BK will have an " important paid football job", Dieken says BK isn't ready yet for a pro pers. job.

I still hope against hope that Marty is in the house...(or Casserly or some other very experienced ex-GM).


That's good to hear. Thanks. I'm with you on Marty or Casserly, or virtually anybody else with serious GM experience.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Lokais » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:37 pm

Well, this could get interesting...
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:38 pm

CP wrote:For the record, Dieken's commentary during games shows enough to say he has no credibility speaking on anything but mundane in-game color commentary.


Maybe.

But he's not wrong about Kosar's qualifications for that job.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Cease » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:39 pm

What are the chances Kokinas was buying the grocieries with little input from Mangini? Is that even plausable, or is this exactly what it appears to be: a shot at Mangini vis a vis a Mangini hire?
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby CP » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:40 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
CP wrote:For the record, Dieken's commentary during games shows enough to say he has no credibility speaking on anything but mundane in-game color commentary.


Maybe.

But he's not wrong about Kosar's qualifications for that job.


Agreed, he's right in a blind squirrel-acorn kinda way...

That's not to say anything about whether Bernie would succeed, but he certainly doesn't have the pedigree.

Thinking about it, an established head football guy with real experience is about the only thing this franchise has never really tried. They've tried coaches of all sorts (long-time NFL coordinators, college coaches, and now a guy with NFL head coaching experience) but have never had a tried-and-true football guy in charge of the organization.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby CP » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:41 pm

Cease wrote:What are the chances Kokinas was buying the grocieries with little input from Mangini? Is that even plausable, or is this exactly what it appears to be: a shot at Mangini vis a vis a Mangini hire?


IMO this is all about wrestling control of the organization's football operations from Mangini. Lerner probably feels that a respected football guy's decision on Mangini will go over better throughout the league than if he fires another coach.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:43 pm

For the record, Dieken's commentary during games shows enough to say he has no credibility speaking on anything but mundane in-game color commentary.

That's some Sears Brand Central smack right there.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:45 pm

CP wrote:
Cease wrote:What are the chances Kokinas was buying the grocieries with little input from Mangini? Is that even plausable, or is this exactly what it appears to be: a shot at Mangini vis a vis a Mangini hire?


IMO this is all about wrestling control of the organization's football operations from Mangini. Lerner probably feels that a respected football guy's decision on Mangini will go over better throughout the league than if he fires another coach.


This...^^^

Let the new GM fire his ass

Give Bernie a piece of the pie and let him make the owner decisions, not GM or Prez and I'd be OK with that
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:47 pm

CP wrote:
Cease wrote:What are the chances Kokinas was buying the grocieries with little input from Mangini? Is that even plausable, or is this exactly what it appears to be: a shot at Mangini vis a vis a Mangini hire?


IMO this is all about wrestling control of the organization's football operations from Mangini. Lerner probably feels that a respected football guy's decision on Mangini will go over better throughout the league than if he fires another coach.


I think you're right. But Randy doesn't seem like he'd be the guy standing over the corpse holding that bloody knife. Could it be (e0y?) that Kokinis slit his own throat in the hopes he can still salvage something out of his career?

Did he bail after fully realizing he was an empty suit?
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby CP » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:50 pm

Peeker643 wrote:I think you're right. But Randy doesn't seem like he'd be the guy standing over the corpse holding that bloody knife. Could it be (e0y?) that Kokinis slit his own throat in the hopes he can still salvage something out of his career?

Did he bail after fully realizing he was an empty suit?


Maybe he remembered the satisfaction he felt as he ripped the bloody knife out of Savage's chest and decided he really liked it?
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Bob Fergus » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:51 pm

Another PFT update:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/
Browns have had consultant "in the building" the past week
Posted by Mike Florio on November 2, 2009 6:59 PM ET
As we continue to hear from more and more folks that (possibly former) Browns G.M. George Kokinis was escorted out of the Browns' facility on Monday, we're told that the Browns have had a consultant "in the building" for the past week.

Though there's no specific evidence at this point that a connection exists between Kokinis' departure and the presence of a consultant, the leap of logic is slightly smaller than the Snake River Canyon.

Given the recent termination of director of football operations Erin O'Brien, it's also possible that the "consultant" was retained not only to help improve the franchise, but also to develop evidence to support the termination of one or more officials with cause, which would block their entitlement to ongoing salary for the duration of their contracts.

Owner Randy Lerner currently is paying the ongoing wages of former coach Romeo Crennel and former G.M. Phil Savage.

Lerner suggested Sunday that he would like to hire an upper-level executive. Lerner's words implied that he's interested in someone who would essentially run the football operations and supervise the head coach and the General Manager. It could be that the new hire will operate essentially as a G.M., possibly with some of the scouting duties deferred to a director of player personnel.

Wow!

Not just that Lerner had a mole inside the building but that Florio suspects that Lerner is attempting to not pay the duration of contracts.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:53 pm

CP wrote:
Cease wrote:What are the chances Kokinas was buying the grocieries with little input from Mangini? Is that even plausable, or is this exactly what it appears to be: a shot at Mangini vis a vis a Mangini hire?


IMO this is all about wrestling control of the organization's football operations from Mangini. Lerner probably feels that a respected football guy's decision on Mangini will go over better throughout the league than if he fires another coach.

I think the league wants Lerner to fire Mangini. Remember that Mangini made a LOT of enemies at the league office during his time in NY, especially with the whole Spygate debacle. A lot of those guys were buddies with Captain Hoodie.

Fact: Miami (Parcells) Hid Chad Pennington's injury and nobody said "Boo."
Fact: The Inbreds hid Toothlessburger's injury and didn't even get a wrist slap.
Fact: Mangini hid Favre's injury and got fined $25k.

That's what the Browns as a team are facing right now. A quote in the most recent version of the Kokinis story notes the "league source" already has called Kokinis' dismissal unfair and going after the wrong guy. Translation: Fire Mangini.

I hate agreeing with Tony Grossi, but he had a good point during his podcast today: The Browns roster is about 65% special teams players, even guys who aren't on Special Teams. "You can't win a lot of games with a roster like that" said Tony. I can't argue with that point.

Mangini is here for the moment, but he'll be following Kokinis out the door before too much longer. I think it's inevitable at this point, especially if Mangini is insistent on keeping Daboll as OC. You can't win with that guy
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:54 pm

CP wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:I think you're right. But Randy doesn't seem like he'd be the guy standing over the corpse holding that bloody knife. Could it be (e0y?) that Kokinis slit his own throat in the hopes he can still salvage something out of his career?

Did he bail after fully realizing he was an empty suit?


Maybe he remembered the satisfaction he felt as he ripped the bloody knife out of Savage's chest and decided he really liked it?


Touche'.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Guest » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:56 pm

daddywags wrote:Wow. Red meat for the fans. But doesn't this just scream "Disfunctional organization" to the rest of the NFL?


And their performance each week didn't already scream that?
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Cease » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:57 pm

TCF exclusive photo and transcript of consultatants:

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We're gonna be getting rid of these people here... First, Mr. George Ko-ki... Koki... Kokinot gonna work here anymore, anyway. Ha Ha Ha.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby mistero » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:04 pm

You're right this team is 65% special team players. I wanted to state that too at some point. We just keep collecting them (Costanza,Trusnik, Vatrone, Maiava, ect)
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:05 pm

http://www.cleveland.com

Browns owner Randy Lerner spent considerable time following Sunday's 30-6 loss to the Bears on Sunday talking one-on-one with Dawn Aponte, Vice President, Football Administration, who was under Kokinis' jurisdiction in the football operations department.
Afterwards, Lerner told two reporters that he wouldn't fire Mangini during the bye this week but that was searching for a football authority to guide the organization.
"There's absolutely no question about that," he said. "The highest priority that I have is a strong, credible, serious leader within the building to guide decisions in a far more conspicuous, open transparent way. I can maybe defend decisions by saying I've sought advice and I've brought people in, and we've gone to see people -- and I think my highest priority is to have a stable figure that represents the voice that explains the decisions."
Even though Mangini has been the voice of the organization since his hiring, Lerner seemed irked that Kokinis didn't take a more high-profile role in the organization. In fact, he encouraged him to be interviewed recently by Sports Illustrated.
Kokinis' ouster comes just days after the Browns dismissed Mangini's hand-picked director of team operations, Eric O'Brien. O'Brien was Mangini's righthand assistant with the Jets.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Bob Fergus » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:05 pm

Follow up on salaries that Randy is on the hook for, millions to Romeo and Phil, check that TENS of millions to Crennell and Savage.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/11/browns_owner_randy_lerner_says.html
... Problem is, he's still in the midst of paying the $20 million to Savage and Crennel owed when he fired them after last season. If he fires Mangini and Kokinis, he'll be on the hook for many millions more.


Peter King made mention of this fact in his MMQB article today.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/11/01/mmqb.week.8/4.html
h. I don't know what Randy Lerner will accomplish in Cleveland by adding another layer to his front office and coaching staff, unless it's to take the authority away from Eric Mangini.
i. I imagine Lerner must really retch when thinking about adding more people, more payroll, to his swollen front office. Are you aware he's paying former GM Phil Savage for four more years in the wake of his firing late last season?


If Randy brings in the Bobs and their chopping block.
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He is still paying Romeo and Phil then he's dead serious about improving things folks even if he's handled things in a ham fisted way up to this point so bravo Randy if you are serious about doing it right this time.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby TIMMAH » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:07 pm

"Well look, I already told you! I deal with the goddamn contracts so the coachs don't have to! I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you??" - Kokinis after being asked by Lerner what exactly he does here.

God I love Office Space. Anyways, if this rumor is true.. wtf is the point? You're 1-7 so you fire the guy who has done nothing as opposed the guy who is suppose to keep you from being 1-7?

I almost want them to give Bernie the GM job. lol fuck it. Just do it. Bernie ftw. It can't get anymore comical.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby diminishingskills » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:09 pm

If Bernie Kosar ends up with a significant team role ... dear God. Only in Cleveland could the guy who was the third-best quarterback in a four-team division twenty years ago, and who has ZERO front office experience, be viewed as a savior. Only in Cleveland.

There is no curse. There's just a trail of really, really stupid fucking decisions.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby Bob Fergus » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:13 pm

TIMMAH wrote:"Well look, I already told you! I deal with the goddamn contracts so the coachs don't have to! I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you??" - Kokinis after being asked by Lerner what exactly he does here.

God I love Office Space. Anyways, if this rumor is true.. wtf is the point? You're 1-7 so you fire the guy who has done nothing as opposed the guy who is suppose to keep you from being 1-7?

I almost want them to give Bernie the GM job. lol fuck it. Just do it. Bernie ftw. It can't get anymore comical.

It seems pretty transparent to me.

This is just like the situation that Zorn has in DC, Lerner is applying heat on Mangini in order to force him to resign so he can negotiate a buy-out. Randy got rid of his personal assistant and now he gets rid of his right hand lackey. He put BK in place to look over his shoulder and give him the creeps. He's ratcheting up the thermostat by the hour so he doesn't have to give him his full contract.

Things will just get worse and worse till Eric resigns.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby TIMMAH » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:14 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:who has ZERO front office experience, be viewed as a savior. Only in Cleveland.



He did turn the 1-15 Las Vegas AFL team into a Cleveland team that went to the conference finals the following year. I'm not saying that's all Bernie or that that's a reason enough to give him a major position but he did have a HUGE role with the Gladiators so that is more then ZERO.
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Re: Rumor: Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:17 pm

TIMMAH wrote:
DiminishingSkills wrote:who has ZERO front office experience, be viewed as a savior. Only in Cleveland.



He did turn the 1-15 Las Vegas AFL team into a Cleveland team that went to the conference finals the following year. I'm not saying that's all Bernie or that that's a reason enough to give him a major position but he did have a HUGE role with the Gladiators so that is more then ZERO.


He also ran all his own businesses and personal finances into the ground while he was shaking hands and being the face of an AFL franchise. So let's call it a wash and go back to zero.
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