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WTF Are The Lions Gonna Do At #2?

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WTF Are The Lions Gonna Do At #2?

Unread postby swerb » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:58 am

Not attending the QB workouts, public comments weekly about having no interest in a QB.

Traded for Tatum Bell, signed TJ Duckett ... to team with a mending Kevin Jones.

Acquired OT George Foster. Is Joe Thomas really a #2 overall pick?

Can they possibly go WR again? Millen may get assassinated, but really, it's probably the best pick for them. Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams would make Fitzgerald and Boldin look like Chiavarini and KJ.

Really smells like a trade down to me ...
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:30 am

Funny, this is roughly the post I tried in the Draft Brew before throwing up my hands last weekend.

Really smells like a trade down to me ...

But what for? Their other most pressing need according to NFL Draft Countdown was a DE, and their other significant move this offseason was signing DE Dewayne White to a 5yr/29mil deal. They dealt their other DE James Hall to STL, but then they also franchised Cory Redding.

Maybe they're looking DT after Shaun Rodgers' underwhelming season?

It's conceivable that they could still take Joe Thomas at 2, since Foster was demoted last year in Denver and could have been brought in as nothing but depth at OT, but it looks to me like it's either Calvin Johnson or a trade down for...Alan Branch? Or possibly Amobi Okoye?
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Unread postby swerb » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:15 pm

Rod Marinelli was a DL coach forever. Millen played D. They allowed over 4 YPC last year and had only 30 sacks as a team. They've gone offense over and over again high in the draft ... to no avail.

IMO, this is either a QB smokescreen or a trade down for BPA defense.

Branch, from just down the road in Ann Arbor makes alot of sense.
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Unread postby swede » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:30 pm

I remember reading somewhere, way back in the days when the Lions were the worst team in football, aka early december, that the Lions had already started doing backround-checks on Brady. Wish I could remember were I read it, could have been on a chat or something.

Anyway, Martz probably thinks he can win with pretty much anything at the QB-position, as long as it has a firm grasp of the play-book and a decent arm. He has probably stated that to Rod and Matt Millen, who gets his point, but knows it doesn´t work with Kitna. So, Rod wants a high character guy who loves football......and that´s probably what Millen wants too. But the stakes are higher for Millen. I do think Rod has a lot of say in the pick though, cause Ernie Sims feels more ROD than Matt.

Like Bow (?) stated we can probably rule out DL and the Gaines Adams now after what they did in FA. Branch ? Sure if they trade down.

If they pick CJ, wouldn´t that prove that Matt Millen has the biggest set of balls EVER ? He might be stupid, but that would be BALLSY.

Shaun Rogers suspension, was it drug thing with him this season ? Steroids or real drugs like Charlie Rogers ? Oh shit, there we go again. They want a high character guy and a player.

It´s got to be Quinn.
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Unread postby jb » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:05 am

If there is ever a team that screams TRADE DOWN! even for less than point value, it does seem to be Detroit, doesn't it? If Marinelli had any power at all that is.

Quinn makes sense for the slot and a QB 1 - 2 draft this year would surprise me not in the least.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:09 pm

DET is doing exactly what Phil's doing--positioning themselves for their QB of the future (or setting up the possibility of trading down I suppose), by filling major holes with average players so they aren't in a "must take" situation at any one position.

Russell/Quinn go 1/2 and Phil's left holding the bag because he wants his QB of the future as well. Plan B isn't all bad though since he holds all the cards now for trade offers for CJ (yes Hoodoo that's a nod to you), as well as an option on JT or AP. Schaub then becomes his new QB target with his 2nd rounder. That puts our offense on pretty solid gound more quickly than BQ or JR.
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:00 pm

DET is doing exactly what Phil's doing--positioning themselves for their QB of the future (or setting up the possibility of trading down I suppose), by filling major holes with average players so they aren't in a "must take" situation at any one position.

If you are who I think you are, good to see you drop in. Your new name sucks, though.

Anyway, I tend to think Millen isn't doing what Phil's doing. If Detroit isn't truly interested in Joe Thomas, I think that tells you that all they've ever been interested in is a trade down.

Climb inside Millen's head for a moment:

"Here I am at #2 overall, with Cleveland one or two spots below me (before the flip) and Arizona at 5. Those teams have two of the worst offensive lines in football, and I want to trade down. I know! Pretend to be interested in Joe Thomas! A bidding war is certain to follow, and through such shrewd dealing I will postpone my inevitable firing for at least another year! Woo hoo!"

Fast forward several weeks into the future:

"You have got to be shitting me. My genius is wasted on these mere mortals. Such a perfectly laid trap...for nothing. OK, OK, Plan B. Everyone knows I'm crazy, right? Calvin Johnson is my man, if he can't make my WR picks look less bad, no one can! No really, there's a chance in hell I will take him, and it is #2 overall that is the hotspot at the top of the draft for a trade down, so if you want him you have to come to me! #3? Why, don't be silly! Calvin will be long gone by then, bwahahaha!"

If I had to guess, I think he's looking interior DL but knows that taking Branch or Okoye at #2 overall is too crazy even for him.
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Unread postby mistero » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:17 pm

It's not only Detroit in a bind it's Oakland.
If Big Al is still in charge anything can happen.

What does Davis like to do on draft day? Cut against the grain.

Look for something wacky...Gaines Adams....Alan Branch.

Just feeling something wacky at 1.

Then Russell falls,but he is no Martz type QB. Detroit then gets good offers to fall back from teams wanting Russell.

Do we move up? Doubt it.

Leaves us with Quinn and Peterson.

So we stand pat and take Okoye.

Clear as mudd.
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Unread postby Wolfy » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:39 pm

Did he really just end that post with Okoye?
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Unread postby pup » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:34 am

Dolphins/Lions trade. Dolphins take Quinn at #2. Detroit takes Branch at #9.

This is why the Browns have become so "interested" in Quinn. Miami knows if he makes it past us, he will be there at 9 without someone else trading up to get him. Phil professes his love, Miami either jumps over us and leaves us with Thomas, or maybe we make the deal with Miami and then take BPA at 9, plus add a couple picks.
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Unread postby jb » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:46 am

HoodooMan wrote:[i]

Climb inside Millen's head for a moment:



"Oh boy, Calvin Johnson is the best WR I've ver seen. For some reason, I've GOT to have him! You can NEVER have enough big WR's!"

(Sorry to sulley a great post that I'll seriously reply to later, but I couldn't resist....)
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Unread postby yogi » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:46 am

If Miami jumps over us and takes Quinn, we pick up the pieces and go AP or JT or trade down, but...

or maybe we make the deal with Miami and then take BPA at 9, plus add a couple picks.


this scenario would be risky to Phil. History will make him out to be the GM that traded away a can't miss QB. (If Brady succeeds).

If you were in Phil's shoes, surely you could see the risk and downside.

Houston's GM has been feeling just the begining fringes of bad history being written for passing over Bush. Imagine if he continues.
Ernie Acorsi has been getting smacked around for trading up to get Eli and thus passing over Rivers and Ben.



IMO, I just don't see Phil trading the spot to Miami, Minny or Houston if its Quinn they are moving up for.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:16 pm

If Detroit isn't truly interested in Joe Thomas, I think that tells you that all they've ever been interested in is a trade down.


Why, because that's who the media's had them taking all along? Kitna's older than me. Why wouldn't they want a Franchise QB to sit for a year behind him? Don't give me Martz because he's been buckin for a HC job since he got fired. They can't count on him being there for long.

Climb inside Millen's head for a moment:


The fact that you think you can do that renders the rest of your post lame. But I'll address it anyway.

Of course neither CLE or AZ will trade up to #2 for JT. Not even Millen would be stupid enough to think that. CLE would be thrilled with BQ or AP, and AZ can have Brown even if they traded down.

Fast forward several weeks into the future:


Everybody in the league knows MM won't take CJ, so there's no threat there, veiled or not. CLE is the place to go for him.

If I had to guess, I think he's looking interior DL but knows that taking Branch or Okoye at #2 overall is too crazy even for him.


Agreed. So all he has to do is order up one of those ready made trade downs that are so easy, and he can get one of them right?

Fact is, few will want to give up what it takes to get to #2. And DET has to be ready to actually select someone at #2. So, they've set themselves up to get a young stud QB because Kitna is a loser.
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:17 pm

I think Millen takes CJ if they stand pat at 2.
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:38 pm

Why, because that's who the media's had them taking all along?

Now you're going to make me obsessively track Mock Drafts the way I do GBN's Top 100 ranking, aren't you?

I wish I had that now, because I swear for the longest while Detroit was assumed to be in the market for a franchise QB (Brady Quinn in particular when everyone still assumed JMR was staying in school for his Sr year--or at least should), and then something changed. That something, I assumed, was in the form of a juicy nugget dropped from up high in the Lions org. I don't know where else that kind of thing comes from, outside of someone just making it up, and just one guy making up a strong interest in a player like Joe Thomas wouldn't get everyone lining up behind them (at least I wouldn't think so). Especially when Joe Thomas to DET never made a whole lot of sense, with them just having given Backus a longterm deal to play LT for them.

So in a word--yeah.

The fact that you think you can do that [Climb inside Millen's head] renders the rest of your post lame.

As though we do much else this time of year.

Of course neither CLE or AZ will trade up to #2 for JT. Not even Millen would be stupid enough to think that.

What position would you have targeted, then, to attract serious interest from teams just below Detroit? Maybe Millen just really likes JT but doesn't see a need for him in DET, so it would make sense to him for two OL-starved franchises to be hot for him. Not everyone's singing the "JT's just another OT" song these days, you know.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:00 pm

because I swear for the longest while Detroit was assumed to be in the market for a franchise QB


I don't recall that. Really, I don't.

What position would you have targeted, then, to attract serious interest from teams just below Detroit?


Not sure what you mean here. Why would DET have to target a position? Why not just see how many holes can be filled in FA and then take your QB of the future or BPA? If an unbelieveable trade offer falls into your lap, then you consider it. You just can't go into your pick with your #1 option being a trade.

Not everyone's singing the "JT's just another OT" song these days, you know


I know, he's climbed back up. But he's still not Ogden or Pace. Is he really good enough that CLE would use picks to trade up one spot, or do you think we'd rather stay put and take AP? And would AZ really use a bunch of picks to move up, when there's a pretty good chance DET takes BQ, CLE takes AP, and TB takes CJ, letting JT fall right into their lap? And if not they still have Brown available.

I just don't see how anybody could basically trick anybody else into thinking they have to move up to get a LT who's not quite elite.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:06 pm

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_5457658

No deal near for No. 2 pick
By Mike Klis
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 03/17/2007 11:35:45 PM MDT


Knowing several NFL teams are drooling over the talents of wide receiver Calvin Johnson, the Detroit Lions have let it be known their No. 2 overall draft pick is up for trade.

Yes, the Lions have held preliminary discussions with the Broncos regarding the No. 2 pick during the past month, NFL sources confirmed.
But Broncos fans shouldn't get their hopes up.

According to sources, the Lions asked for multiple draft picks that included Denver's No. 21 selection. The Broncos considered the asking price far too high, and trade discussions have ceased.

While a Denver deal with Detroit appears unlikely, the Broncos have been trying to trade their No. 21 pick. Some of the Broncos' trade possibilities have them moving up on the draft board and others have them moving down.

For the Lions, the possibility of dealing the No. 2 pick is all about the benefits of moving down. Provided the Oakland Raiders take Louisiana State quarterback JaMarcus Russell as expected with their No. 1 pick in the draft April 28, Johnson is widely considered a no-brainer selection at No. 2.

The Georgia Tech product is a 6-foot-5, 239-pound athletic specimen who was clocked in the 40-yard dash in 4.35 seconds at the scouting combine.
Put another way, Johnson is to receivers in this year's draft what Reggie Bush was to running backs in last year's draft.

The Lions, however, just happen to be the one team that wouldn't dare take another receiver so high in the draft, not after they were burned by Charles Rogers with the No. 2 pick in 2003 and Mike Williams with the 10th selection in 2005.

With an average record of 4-12 the past six seasons, the Lions are contemplating whether they can get greater value by moving down in the draft for multiple players and picks in return.

The Broncos became a logical candidate in part because of how coach Mike Shanahan traded up to get quarterback Jay Cutler last year (a series of deals moved Denver from No. 30 to No. 11), but also because the two teams worked out a trade this month.
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I guess NOW Joe Thomas is really out of the question

Unread postby swede » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:51 pm

I guess NOW Joe Thomas is really out of the question, since the Lions signed Titans G Zach Piller and maybe Mulitalo as well ( doesn´t sound like a done deal yet ).

Now they really, really, REALLY want to trade down.

Unless it is Quinn for them.

Interesting.
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