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A Pete News

Unread postby jb » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:04 pm

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6507140

4.3 40's and this kind on non-Hughes heart.

My only fear now is the Lions don't pass on him.

This is the guy. This is the long awaited heir to The Man and Leroy, Mack was close, but not quite at this level.

Don't fuck this up, Phil.

BTW - how about Quinn smakking down Russell by comparison in the sctrength & conditioning.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:10 pm

IF the Browns can add 2 to their OL in FA and are confident in Tucker and Fraley coming back, then Peterson is the chioice. If they don't, then I am sorry, but I still say Joe Thomas.
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Unread postby Dozen » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:24 pm

Anyone but Quinn :lol:
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Unread postby jb » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:28 pm

Pup wrote:IF the Browns can add 2 to their OL in FA and are confident in Tucker and Fraley coming back, then Peterson is the chioice. If they don't, then I am sorry, but I still say Joe Thomas.


Just my opinion, but there's 2 or 3 Joe Thomases in the draft next year, and like Driver 8 , we're still a ways away.

A Pete is a once/twice in a decade talent at an impact position.

My consolation is that I bleive we won't have to choose between the two. Oakland goes QB, and Detroit will take one of he two I think, probably Thomas.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:34 pm

A Pete is a once/twice in a decade talent at an impact position.


I don't think that is true in this day and age, at that position. Running backs grow on trees. I was a huge AP joneser all year, but the o-line is a mess. You cannot begin to fix this team until there is a competent o-line in place. You have no way to judge the other players without one.

This does not mean I will be unhappy with A-Pete, in fact, if we do the right things before the draft I would be very happy.
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Unread postby jb » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:56 pm

Pup wrote:
A Pete is a once/twice in a decade talent at an impact position.


I don't think that is true in this day and age, at that position. Running backs grow on trees. I was a huge AP joneser all year, but the o-line is a mess. You cannot begin to fix this team until there is a competent o-line in place. You have no way to judge the other players without one.

This does not mean I will be unhappy with A-Pete, in fact, if we do the right things before the draft I would be very happy.


Productive RB's grow on trees.

Guys who can hammer AND house you are rare indeed.

Then they only grow on trees if you are Pitsburgh.

On the rest of your take, I can dig it. But I don't see this in terms of an either/or situation and if they don't take a good-but-not-great OLman prospect 3rd overall then the whole enchilada to improve this thing is over. Lot's of resources.
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Unread postby furls » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:17 am

With the amount of holes they have and A-Pete being who he is, they should trade down.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:49 am

Of course, he is from Oklahoma, so his value goes about 10 fold in Phil's eyes.
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:14 am

Why? cuzz he's drafted 2-3 players from there over the last 2 drafts?
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Unread postby pup » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:17 am

um, yes.
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:20 am

Brodney Pool is decent, and Wilson...well 3rd picks who hold out get none playing time. Alot of Gm's have relationships with colleges. Every team has somewhere they pluck talent from more than others
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Unread postby pup » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:26 am

Didn't say it was a negative, just a fact. GM's do have colleges they pluck talent from and Oklahoma is that school for Phil.

I Like Pool.
Have no idea about Wilson, but if you are drafting a guy in the 3rd round and he is going to hold out, that should be a red flag.
Antonio Perkins is a waste of time.

What is your point? Mine was that Phil likes players from Oklahoma, Peterson is from Oklahoma, and therefore Peterson is probably pretty high in Phil's opinion.
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:29 am

Yeah Perkins is a non factor so far, I hope your right about AP
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Unread postby furls » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:07 pm

A Pete is a once/twice in a decade talent at an impact position.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He is not Reggie Bush, who is a once a decade RB. A-Pete is what he is, a once/twice a DRAFT running back. Productive RBs grow on trees and can frequently be found in the 2-4th round.
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Unread postby jb » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:48 pm

Furls wrote:
A Pete is a once/twice in a decade talent at an impact position.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He is not Reggie Bush, who is a once a decade RB. A-Pete is what he is, a once/twice a DRAFT running back. Productive RBs grow on trees and can frequently be found in the 2-4th round.


Your milage may vary, and while I get that this is a subjective discussion that can devo into a pissing contest so I'm not claiming a right to be correct, I'm at a loss to come up with a yearly list of 6'2" 220 pound super-productive RB's from major conferences who run 4 . 3 's entering the draft.

I realize that I'm no Mel Kuiper, but I'm racking my brain trying to remember how this fits the profile or 2 or 3 guys a year. Maroney? Addai? R Brown? Benson? Caddy Williams? Chris Perry? Kevin Jones? Johnson? MaGahee?

These guys, none of them, have the complete package that A Pete brings.

Reggie is special at what he does, but he can not carry a team. A Pete did and should do so at the next level.

Meanwhile, let's see how Sam Baker and Jake Long grade out next year. I'd project where JT is this season, or damn close. I don't think JT is at all dif from The Brick, or even - shudder - Gallery.

Damn good prospect to be sure, but a guy who is gettable on any given year you pick in the top 10, which sadly I'll shink we're doomed to be for one more season.
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Unread postby furls » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:10 pm

I'm at a loss to come up with a yearly list of 6'2" 220 pound super-productive RB's from major conferences who run 4 . 3 's entering the draft.


First of all, being 6'2" is actually a bit of a detriment for a RB as taller running backs (Peterson included) have a tendency to run to "upright" and their pad level as a result is to high. This often lends itself to durability issues of the 16 game NFL grind. (Not saying Peterson is going to get hurt I don't think his injury history is actually that bad)

As for the 220 part, he weighed in at 217 which is pretty much the standard. The backs drafted in the first 2 rounds last year:

2006:
Reggie Bush: 201 lbs (4.38 40)
Laurence Maroney: 217 (4.46 40)
Joseph Addai: 217 (4.41 40)
Deangelo Williams: 214 (4.55 40)
Lendale White: 238 (too fat to run the 40)

2005:
Ronnie Brown: 233 (4.44)
C. Benson: 222 (4.55)
C. Williams: 217 (4.50)
J.J. Arrington: 214 (4.45)
E. Shelton: 246 (4.56) FB

2004:
S. Jackson 221 (4.55)
C. Perry 220 (4.56)
K. Jones 224 (4.59)
T. Bell 214 (4.37)
J. Jones 214 (4.49)
G. Jones 249 (4.62)

2003
W. McGahee 223 (4.45)
L. Johnson 228 (4.6)

Here is this years list of RB 40s (the good times):

1. Chris Henry Arizona 4.40
2. Adrian Peterson Oklahoma 4.40
3. Antonio Pittman Ohio St. 4.40
4. Kenny Irons Auburn 4.45
5. Lorenzo Booker Florida St 4.46
6. Marshawn Lynch Cal 4.46
7. DeShawn Wynn Florida 4.48
8. Alonzo Coleman Hampton 4.49
9. Ramonce Taylor Texas 4.50

(Most of these guys are within 10lbs of 217 also)



I am not saying that AP is not good, but frankly guys who are 217 and run 4.40 forties (his actual time) are not necessarily that rare. Almost all of the above were also from major conferences and carried their teams. This also shows that the 40 time may not be the most important aspect (probably isnt).

These guys, none of them, have the complete package that A Pete brings.


AP is a nice blend of speed, power, and quickness, but he does not have that market cornered. He is not a complete back though, his pass pro is questionable as are his hands. His hands are not bad, per se, it is just that Oklahoma does not have him doing much beside toting the rock.

Reggie is special at what he does, but he can not carry a team. A Pete did and should do so at the next level.


did you watch the Fresno St./USC game? I am pretty sure Bush had 500+ yards in that game and carried USC to the win. AP has been injured in all 3 of his seasons at OU, yep even the freshman one (had to have surgery at the end of the season to fix a shoulder).

I don't think JT is at all dif from The Brick, or even - shudder - Gallery.


Thomas has 10X better feet than Gallery and 5X better feet than the Brick. The Brick did have a pretty successful rookie season, I would be happy to give up this year's 3rd to have him play LT in Cleveland.

Damn good prospect to be sure, but a guy who is gettable on any given year you pick in the top 10, which sadly I'll shink we're doomed to be for one more season.


.... and that is exactly the same way I feel about AP. THis is why I think they should just trade down and fill a hole somewhere else. Next year's RB class looks like it should be legendary..... Ray Rice, Slaton, McFadden, Hart, and a couple of others that I am sure will emerge. I would rather have an extra couple of picks this year and one of them next year.
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Unread postby jb » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:19 pm

Furls wrote:First of all, being 6'2" is actually a bit of a detriment for a RB as taller running backs (Peterson included) have a tendency to run to "upright" and their pad level as a result is to high.


I am not saying that AP is not good, but frankly guys who are 217 and run 4.40 forties (his actual time) are not necessarily that rare.


Thomas has 10X better feet than Gallery and 5X better feet than the Brick. The Brick did have a pretty successful rookie season, I would be happy to give up this year's 3rd to have him play LT in Cleveland.


3 return takes Furls.

6'2" allows you to stride when you hit open field. It is partially why AP gets so many long gainers. Style is just style. Being a tall strider didn't hurt Orenthal, the Dick, and it won't hurt AP .

AP was timed 3.38

And can you give me the calculus on how you arrived at 10X and 5X ? LOL. Just plauin' with yah.

Hey. I won't kill myself if we draft Thomas at all. I still think you are minimalizing how good AP is and how rare 220 & 4.38 is. You dismiss 10 - 15 pounds, the dif between 4.38 and 4.45 and his vision and toughness in quarter 4 too cavalierly to me, but different strokes, bro.

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Unread postby furls » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:47 am

I still think you are minimalizing how good AP is and how rare 220 & 4.38 is. You dismiss 10 - 15 pounds, the dif between 4.38 and 4.45 and his vision and toughness in quarter 4 too cavalierly to me, but different strokes, bro.


4.38 was hand timed, his official (and more accurate) time was 4.40. Now, frankly that is just splitting hairs, as is the difference between 4.40 and 4.45. He came in at 217.... the difference between 217 and 220 or 227 or 207 for that matter is primarily reliant on height.

I still think you are minimalizing how good AP is and how rare 220 & 4.38 is. You dismiss 10 - 15 pounds


hmmm.... how rare 220 and 4.40 is? Well if that is rare, how rare is 6'5", 239, and 4.35? (Calvin Johnson's numbers). If you are really sold on sheer athleticism, then Calvin Johnson has to be the pick. FWIW he supposedly has a 45-48 vertical which would put it 5" above the nearest competitor at the combine.

6'2" allows you to stride when you hit open field. It is partially why AP gets so many long gainers. Style is just style. Being a tall strider didn't hurt Orenthal, the Dick, and it won't hurt AP .


Really? Explain why 11 of the NFL's 13 leading rushers are under 6'0" tall. Hell, if they grew a bit they might be good. (only exceptions were Stephen Jackson and Larry Johnson)

This is not an anomoly... in 2005 the ratio was EXACTLY the same. (Exceptions LJ and Stephen Jackson) and in 2004 it was 10/13 were under 6'0".

I won't kill myself if we draft Thomas at all.


Thomas is not my boy. I have sort of soured on him some. I think he is good, best in this year's draft, but I really think that the Browns can get so much more than what Thomas (or Peterson for that matter) is worth by trading down. I do not think that Peterson is an elite back (compared to Bush or LT) nor do I think that Joe Thomas is the second coming of Orlando Pace, but he is definetly better than Gallery.

All good running backs have vision, and frankly, toughness in the NCAA level does not translate to toughness at the NFL level. Different games, different seasons, different competition levels, and you never know how tough someone will be once they have $$ in their pocket and $$ on the line with the next injury.
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Unread postby Lebowski » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:25 pm

FWIW, reports today that Detroit traded Dre Bly for Tatum Bell. Looks like A-Pete will be there for us, barring a trade.
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:19 pm

AP is a nice blend of speed, power, and quickness, but he does not have that market cornered.

A "nice" blend?

I haven't seen a RB run with that kind of exceptional balance since Barry Sanders. The guy is a fucking YAC machine, with nice vision and some serious competitive fire. Add his speed & power to the mix, and what you have is the best RB prospect in a long time (and I was on the record...somewhere...last year as preferring him over Reggie Bush).

He's the best football player in this draft, and his selection should be a no-brainer. Let's just hope the Raiduhs don't pass on JMR and tempt Phil to go in another direction.
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Unread postby Guest » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:25 pm

I like A Pete A LOT, but I think Calvin Johnson is the best player in the draft with him 2nd.

I want either one of them if no trade is made.
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Unread postby furls » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:34 pm

I haven't seen a RB run with that kind of exceptional balance since Barry Sanders.


laughable, and they do not belong in the same sentence. I have seen him play, I think he is good, but I do not think he is the second coming of LT or apparently Barry Sanders.

He will be a good NFL running back, provided he learns to get his pads low enough to survive a season.
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:35 pm

I like A Pete A LOT, but I think Calvin Johnson is the best player in the draft with him 2nd.

Calvin Johnson is a freaky athlete, but he's still a WR, and projecting WRs to the pros is a bitch. Especially compared to RBs.

The absence of comparably freaky numbers at GT can't all be his QB's fault, can it?

(but, FTR, I'd still put him 2nd behind A-D/P)
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:39 pm

laughable

We must have managed to watch him without watching any of the same games, then.

He's the best pure runner since Barry. And you won't be laughing in September.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:40 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Let's just hope the Raiduhs don't pass on JMR and tempt Phil to go in another direction.


Yikes!

http://www.realgmfootball.com/src_wiret ... g_johnson/

Raiders Sour On Russell, Favoring Johnson?
5th March, 2007 - 5:09 pm
Sporting News - The Raiders' brass returned from the NFL Scouting Combine less convinced that Louisiana State QB JaMarcus Russell is their man for the top pick and with more questions than before after taking a long look at him during the process.

Publicly, the Raiders said nothing about Russell or any of the other players who attended the Combine. Privately, several Raider officials questioned Russell's work ethic, said they are concerned about his weight as a long-term issue, and cautioned against making Russell a cinch as the top pick.

It now appears just as likely that the Raiders will target Georgia Tech WR Calvin Johnson in light of his posting a 4.31-second 40-yard dash, as well as a very impressive interview.
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