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The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby pup » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:07 am

mattvan1 wrote:
Pup wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
tribefaninsouthernoh wrote: Spoken like a true die-hard fan. Without a game even having been played. Amazing..... :dead:


Ah, yes. Collective group think says "Give peace a chance". Are you a PSL owner and sewason ticket holder? Just curious. Also curious what the current org has done to give you any confidence going into the 2009 season. Maybe I've missed something along the way.


Fired Romeo?


Currently current. As in Mangini and Kokinis. Yes, I know. Be patient. Give them a chance. We haven't even had the draft yet. Fine. I get that. But I see no hope on the horizon. None. At all. Plus, I simply grow tired of the "criticize the org and you're not a true fan" crowd. No one should get to question any person's fandom. Especially mine.


OK. What have they done to cause you to lose confidence going into the 2009 season?
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:25 am

Pup wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Pup wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
tribefaninsouthernoh wrote: Spoken like a true die-hard fan. Without a game even having been played. Amazing..... :dead:


Ah, yes. Collective group think says "Give peace a chance". Are you a PSL owner and sewason ticket holder? Just curious. Also curious what the current org has done to give you any confidence going into the 2009 season. Maybe I've missed something along the way.


Fired Romeo?


Currently current. As in Mangini and Kokinis. Yes, I know. Be patient. Give them a chance. We haven't even had the draft yet. Fine. I get that. But I see no hope on the horizon. None. At all. Plus, I simply grow tired of the "criticize the org and you're not a true fan" crowd. No one should get to question any person's fandom. Especially mine.


OK. What have they done to cause you to lose confidence going into the 2009 season?


Who says I ever had any confidence to begin? I see the trap you're setting, and of course you are right in that at this point there isn't much to criticize. But don't worry, I'll find something. Essentially, I lost all hope when Randy went non-linear and fell in love with Mangini. As of that event, my confidence meter was set to 0. As far as the new regime, I can't see where they have done anything to bump that needle off of 0. The K2 trade was ballsy, so OK let's say that gains them something. They moved the mural. They signed a bunch of 32 year old guys, none of whom excites anyone. They cut some dead weight which should have been jettisoned years ago. They are sticking fingers in the dike while they decide what to do. They are re-building when we were told that wasn't necessary. I expect the following quote from Mangini any day now "I wish we could just fast forward through this year so we could see what we've got."
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby pup » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:22 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Pup wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Pup wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
tribefaninsouthernoh wrote: Spoken like a true die-hard fan. Without a game even having been played. Amazing..... :dead:


Ah, yes. Collective group think says "Give peace a chance". Are you a PSL owner and sewason ticket holder? Just curious. Also curious what the current org has done to give you any confidence going into the 2009 season. Maybe I've missed something along the way.


Fired Romeo?


Currently current. As in Mangini and Kokinis. Yes, I know. Be patient. Give them a chance. We haven't even had the draft yet. Fine. I get that. But I see no hope on the horizon. None. At all. Plus, I simply grow tired of the "criticize the org and you're not a true fan" crowd. No one should get to question any person's fandom. Especially mine.


OK. What have they done to cause you to lose confidence going into the 2009 season?


Who says I ever had any confidence to begin? I see the trap you're setting, and of course you are right in that at this point there isn't much to criticize. But don't worry, I'll find something. Essentially, I lost all hope when Randy went non-linear and fell in love with Mangini. As of that event, my confidence meter was set to 0. As far as the new regime, I can't see where they have done anything to bump that needle off of 0. The K2 trade was ballsy, so OK let's say that gains them something. They moved the mural. They signed a bunch of 32 year old guys, none of whom excites anyone. They cut some dead weight which should have been jettisoned years ago. They are sticking fingers in the dike while they decide what to do. They are re-building when we were told that wasn't necessary. I expect the following quote from Mangini any day now "I wish we could just fast forward through this year so we could see what we've got."


Did Mangini himself say we didn't need to rebuild? Or did some bitter old reporter say that he said that, knowing we were going back to the secret service days?

So they get no credit for cutting the dead weight, that should have been cut years ago? I mean, those guys were not cut years ago. So that is something, no?

Would you really prefer they came in and made a bunch of bold moves from minute one? Isn't it time someone put a finger in the dike and actually took the time to evaluate before making decisions?

You are anticipating Mangini to suck, therefore whatever he does now sucks.
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:05 pm

Pup wrote: Did Mangini himself say we didn't need to rebuild? Or did some bitter old reporter say that he said that, knowing we were going back to the secret service days?

So they get no credit for cutting the dead weight, that should have been cut years ago? I mean, those guys were not cut years ago. So that is something, no?

Would you really prefer they came in and made a bunch of bold moves from minute one? Isn't it time someone put a finger in the dike and actually took the time to evaluate before making decisions?

You are anticipating Mangini to suck, therefore whatever he does now sucks.


It was reported, by multiple sources, that Mangini assured Randy that a rebuild was not required. But that's not why I called. They cut Andra Davis - stop the presses! That alone should buy them major points, right? Seriously - is that an example of why you assess this org as "confidence building"? Because they cut Andra Davis?

Pup, nuthin' from nuthin' but you may want to curb your enthusiasm. If all you can hang your hat on is they cut dead weight then I'm not really seeing a whole lot.

Let me re-phrase. I am anticipating any "I have man love for him - he reminds me of a youg BB" hire to suck. I am believeing that everything Randy touches turns to shit. I am knowing that this is not the right way to run a $1,000,000,000 business whilst fucking over the fans of Cleveland.

So yes, this org starts at zero. 0. Nil. Nunca. They need to prove me wrong. So far they have signed 8, 32 year old journeymen, and cut Andra Davis. I'm saddened that that impresses you. :thumbdown:
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby pup » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:33 am

We just look at things differently I guess.

No man love. I have not professed any love for anyone.

I just haven't thrown dirt on them yet either.

Big difference.
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:25 am

Pup wrote:We just look at things differently I guess.

No man love. I have not professed any love for anyone.

I just haven't thrown dirt on them yet either.

Big difference.


Quick clarification - the "man-love' is Randy for Mangini. Not saying that you have drank the Kool-Ade, by any means. You are being pragmatic; I'm demoralized and slightly manic. All in all, I'd much rather take your approach.

I just can't.
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby pup » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:36 am

mattvan1 wrote:
Pup wrote:We just look at things differently I guess.

No man love. I have not professed any love for anyone.

I just haven't thrown dirt on them yet either.

Big difference.


Quick clarification - the "man-love' is Randy for Mangini. Not saying that you have drank the Kool-Ade, by any means. You are being pragmatic; I'm demoralized and slightly manic. All in all, I'd much rather take your approach.

I just can't.


Which I actually understand.

I think the bitterness of people in the Tribe and earlier in the year the Cavs forum have actually turned me into a shill. Which is wierd. I think.
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby jamesownsdet » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:17 am

FWIW I'm 36, Browns fan my whole life, until now. Fuck them. They suck. They're not the same team I loved as a kid. They're not the Kardiac Kids. They're not Bernie and Marty's teams. Shit they aint even Forrest Greggs joke of a team. They blow. Worst organization in sports. Fuck them. Fuck Lerner. I hope they move again. Because they embarrass me and embarrass my city. I hope they never win. I hope they never do anything but suck. Fuck you Browns.

How's that for losing a fan?
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby jamesownsdet » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:21 am

jamesownsdet wrote:FWIW I'm 36, Browns fan my whole life, until now. Fuck them. They suck. They're not the same team I loved as a kid. They're not the Kardiac Kids. They're not Bernie and Marty's teams. Shit they aint even Forrest Greggs joke of a team. They blow. Worst organization in sports. Fuck them. Fuck Lerner. I hope they move again. Because they embarrass me and embarrass my city. I hope they never win. I hope they never do anything but suck. Fuck you Browns.

How's that for losing a fan?


And I love Benz's article today with the premise "at least we're not the Bengals" because Cincy signed Tank Johnson....haha. Hey Gary, the Browns are just as bad, if not worse, than the Bengals. At least the criminal they signed is a good football player. The Browns' criminals are not only criminals but they SUCK at football on top of it. I think it's a little silly to ridicule a team for signing a Tank Johnson when one of your players just got drunk and ran over and killed another human being. Perhaps shutting the fuck up about other franchises is in order around Cleveland. At least until you have a couple seasons in a row that aren't complete embarrassments. Just sayin.
"If I sell a lil' crack, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it...

If I die in Iraq, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it...

If I take you fo granted, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it...

If I f- up the planet, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it"

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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 am

jamesownsdet wrote:FWIW I'm 36, Browns fan my whole life, until now. Fuck them. They suck. They're not the same team I loved as a kid. They're not the Kardiac Kids. They're not Bernie and Marty's teams. Shit they aint even Forrest Greggs joke of a team. They blow. Worst organization in sports. Fuck them. Fuck Lerner. I hope they move again. Because they embarrass me and embarrass my city. I hope they never win. I hope they never do anything but suck. Fuck you Browns.

How's that for losing a fan?


cya. :hide:

Also, you'll be back when we start winning, all of the fans that have made similar comments will be, hell even when we're not, they'll be folks drawn back. We're gluttons for punishment.

Here we go Brownies :hide:
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Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby jb » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:30 am

jamesownsdet wrote:And I love Benz's article today with the premise "at least we're not the Bengals" because Cincy signed Tank Johnson....haha. Hey Gary, the Browns are just as bad, if not worse, than the Bengals. At least the criminal they signed is a good football player. The Browns' criminals are not only criminals but they SUCK at football on top of it. I think it's a little silly to ridicule a team for signing a Tank Johnson when one of your players just got drunk and ran over and killed another human being. Perhaps shutting the fuck up about other franchises is in order around Cleveland. At least until you have a couple seasons in a row that aren't complete embarrassments. Just sayin.



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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:10 pm

Pup wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Pup wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
tribefaninsouthernoh wrote: Spoken like a true die-hard fan. Without a game even having been played. Amazing..... :dead:


Ah, yes. Collective group think says "Give peace a chance". Are you a PSL owner and sewason ticket holder? Just curious. Also curious what the current org has done to give you any confidence going into the 2009 season. Maybe I've missed something along the way.


Fired Romeo?


Currently current. As in Mangini and Kokinis. Yes, I know. Be patient. Give them a chance. We haven't even had the draft yet. Fine. I get that. But I see no hope on the horizon. None. At all. Plus, I simply grow tired of the "criticize the org and you're not a true fan" crowd. No one should get to question any person's fandom. Especially mine.


OK. What have they done to cause you to lose confidence going into the 2009 season?


You can't lose what you don't have.

A better question would be what gives you confidence?

Look, I mentioned before what I believe happened concerning the Mangini hiring, and then dropped the subject because there were 9,000 articles written about the subject at the time. To reiterate, in simple form, I believe Mangini got Lerner in the one on one and made illusions to Coach Bill and what he did. And, for whatever reasons, legit or otherwise, Lerner bought in. I'm sure Mangini having a history here helped as well. Now, much of this can be considered conjecture, and I have no proof this is the way it went down, but if nothing it shows where I'm coming from.

What is much less debatable is what developed from this, that is, Mangini bringing in Kokinis, who was so far away from being an NFL GM anywhere else on God's green earth, it's not funny. One half of this team is a patsy. The checks and balances that need to occur between a head coach and GM will be non-existent. This, ILO, and history shows is not a good thing.

Now, it doesn't mean I'm going to bag on everything Mangini does. As a matter of fact, I like that he's somewhat a prick, I like that he's cleaning house. I believe this team needs these things and more. However, it's a real dangerous situation. Mangini may have earned the right to be the coach, but has he earned the right to put an NFL franchise, from top to bottom, on his back - because that's what the Browns have afforded him.

So, I'm certainy willing to take a look and see what happens, and I'm not going to be pessimistic without giving him a chance, but certainly, I'm not out of bounds by not being optimistic, because this formula isn't consistent with winning franchises.

The onus is certainly on them.
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby jb » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:39 pm

, I believe Mangini got Lerner in the one on one and made illusions to Coach Bill


Truest malapropism ever.
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:01 pm

JB wrote:
, I believe Mangini got Lerner in the one on one and made illusions to Coach Bill


Truest malapropism ever.


SD:

Bottom line nobody cares if he had pictures of Lerner fuckin a goat which got him the job if he wins.

My bitch is , where did all these expert Mutha fucka whinning expert assholes come from all of a sudden , in the history of sport only pimp Daddy Mac Denver deserves a shorter honey moon , but yet peeps around here in the lynch mob crew are lined up to hang the Mangy Kok boys before they say i do.

Until we got proof of some actual bonafide fucked up shit , i think these mutha fucka's need to chill the fuck out step the fuck off and save their venom till they got somethin.

JMHO.


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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby jb » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:04 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
JB wrote:
, I believe Mangini got Lerner in the one on one and made illusions to Coach Bill


Truest malapropism ever.


SD:

Bottom line nobody cares if he had pictures of Lerner fuckin a goat which got him the job if he wins.

My bitch is , where did all these expert Mutha fucka whinning expert assholes come from all of a sudden , in the history of sport only pimp Daddy Mac Denver deserves a shorter honey moon , but yet peeps around here in the lynch mob crew are lined up to hang the Mangy Kok boys before they say i do.

Until we got proof of some actual bonafide fucked up shit , i think these mutha fucka's need to chill the fuck out step the fuck off and save their venom till they got somethin.

JMHO.


SoulDawg



Two camps.

One still says, give them a chance until they prove they fail.

The second, F ' em until they show something and prove themselves different.

Both want the Browns to win.
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Re: The Browns becoming 2nd fiddle?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:21 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
JB wrote:
, I believe Mangini got Lerner in the one on one and made illusions to Coach Bill


Truest malapropism ever.


SD:

Bottom line nobody cares if he had pictures of Lerner fuckin a goat which got him the job if he wins.

My bitch is , where did all these expert Mutha fucka whinning expert assholes come from all of a sudden , in the history of sport only pimp Daddy Mac Denver deserves a shorter honey moon , but yet peeps around here in the lynch mob crew are lined up to hang the Mangy Kok boys before they say i do.

Until we got proof of some actual bonafide fucked up shit , i think these mutha fucka's need to chill the fuck out step the fuck off and save their venom till they got somethin.

JMHO.


SoulDawg


The way they were HIRED is "some actual bonafide fucked up shit." But that's not on them, so you're correct in one aspect.

I know, I know. This was one of your all time favs growing up.
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