Broncos and QB Jay Cutler melting, could be a bargain

[yogi]

Bottom line is that if you take Cutler over Quinn everyday of the week.

Its very early in the week, how can you be so sure?.
Maybe you take Cutler on Monday, but its only Tuesday . Maybe on Wedsnesday, its a coin flip. Maybe by Thursday Quinn whips his ass. Maybe by Saturday Cutler will be outta football cause he got his feelings hurt Friday night cause he got stood up on the dance floor.

[Bob Fergus]

...I am under the impression that trading Rogers is impossible due to cap acceleration. Yes ? No ?

Nothing that is stupid is impossible, see the newbie HC in Denver making stupid the word of the day but I digress. We don't trade away a 350+ NT who is under contract because its just not smart and its not smart to do that because of the current market of NT/DTs in the league.

Econ 101:

Tommy Kelly aka nobody DT becomes the highest paid DT in NFL history right before last year's free agency period was to kick off.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3269154

Updated: February 28, 2008, 2:00 PM ET
Kelly signs seven-year, $50.5 million contract with Raiders
The Oakland Raiders stepped forward Thursday on the eve of free agency and signed Tommy Kelly to the largest contract ever given to a defensive tackle.

We then go out and trade for Corey Willams and Shuan Rogers. Rogers then became the highest paid DT in the NFL over the next three years.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/stor ... NHeadlines

Updated: March 5, 2008, 7:41 PM ET
Browns' recently acquired defensive tackle gets 6-year deal
... Under terms of the new contract, Rogers will make $23 million over the first three years.

Then check the new contract by Al Hainesworth that laps both of those guys. So you can chalk it up to acceleration or what not but its classic Adam Smith law of supply and demand and we have one of the rare disruptive NTs in the league and we're paying him like he should be paid and he's under contract for the next half decade.

Shuan Rogers isn't going anywhere and he's not a toss in. Rank and file fans haven't got a clue about the rarity of a Shuan Rogers and what a score that was for Savage.

BQ & BE for Culter and the pick instead?

Denver just fired a HOF HC in Shanahan so the owner's ego is vested in making sure McDaniels succeeds. That is why he opened his pocket book and allowed the kid to sign 13 free agents (they just signed another one over the weekened and are far and away the most active team in the league). The kid/McDaniels was the driving force behind trying to get Cassell. The reason is two-fold, one he molded him and he knows the system he wants to install in Denver and two the fallout from the original friction from the Broncos owner not just firing Shanny but also when the owner canned Jay's OC and when the owner got a newbie HC who got off on the wrong foot with Cutler.

BQ already knows that system and he has only started two games so he's untainted, Josh could mold him just like he molded Cassell. Also I think Quinn is far and away better than any of the rookies coming out and he'd come dirt cheap in comparison. Matt Ryan hauled in $31 million gauranteed and a overall $100 million contract that surpassed Tom Brady!

BQ is a better fit for that system, hell he already knows it and I think he projects better anyway no matter what the system is and he would definitely come far cheaper than paying a rookie. Also a rookie would take two or three years IF he ever comes up to speed. A rookie could easily bust.

The Cutler affair will define McDaniels. He doesn't have a two year window. He has to win YESTERDAY! His options are extremely limited and the only logical escap hatch I see is Brady Quinn.

Cutler is scaring me to invest in him now. He needs to play out this contract and never resign with them. He is being a prima donna.

People aren't factoring in the big ego of the Bronco owner Pat Bowlen. He is the one who went off according to reports when Jay didn't return phone calls. Then the head coach appears to be a bit 'chippy' since Jay isn't the only Bronco who refused to show up today.

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/cutler.nfl.broncos.2.958850.html

Has new head coach Josh McDaniels sabotaged his credibility in the Denver Broncos locker room? CBS4 Broncos Insider Reggie Rivers writes that although the rift with quarterback Jay Cutler is the issue that has drawn the most public attention, another similar personnel matter also has some players concerned.
… CBS4 has also learned that tight end Tony Scheffler intends on skipping Monday's voluntary session.

Scheffler got stone walled by the Bronco FO, errr Tony is Jay's best buddy on the team so this looks like a complete hose job on Cutler to force him in line.

I'm not playing the blame-game in this one. I'll fault em both and call it a push so I move to the point everyone seems to missing since they want to focus on the drama.

The point is 8,000 yards over the last two years for a 25 yr old NFL QB.

That is what it boils down to. QB production. Jay can bring it.

Oh and I would bet that their is one other aspect that people are missing, ahem, MONEY$$$

I was waiting for this to rear its ugly head.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

SOURCE: COOK WANTS NEW CONTRACT FOR CUTLER
Posted by Mike Florio on March 16, 2009, 11:34 a.m.

This is what I found but this may not be correct:
- $1.035mm base salary
- $4.0mm bonus for taking 70% of the team's snaps
- $1.9+mm bonus for finishing in the top 5 of any major passing category [which I believe to be completions, yards, TDs, passer rating]

So he has a very very low base salary, positively cheap but he nailed all of his incentives to make him a $7 man last year which is just about right in terms of compensation. His base should be higher and any team who signs him, including the Broncos but I don't that is likely to happen now that things have dropped this far this fast. Basically Jay rates an extension with a higher base and he'll get it.

Brilliant move by the kid coach BTW. There is more than a patern to these BB tree pukes. BUt if Denver is stubborn they'll win this one. Let Cutler sit out. F 'em.

Just look at what the kid McDaniels has done even before he gets to his first mini camp. Lies to and alienates one of the fast rising NFL QB stars after replacing a HOF HC.

Somewhere Shanny is

Oh and that is one more reason I want us to make a play for Cutler.

Just think for a moment, big picture-HD-style.

Next year if the Mankok experiment doesn't pan out...

Just think if we had Jay Cutler as our starting QB and Shanny is rested after taking a year off.

Jes say'n.

[justmebd]

I'm sorry. I'm not willing to cast aside Brady Quinn after only a few starts (and only one of those was he healthy).

I have no interest in Jay Cutler at this time. I want to see what Brady Quinn has before I move on to the next QB. I've seen Derek Anderson and do not want. I haven't seen enough of Quinn to make an informed decision.

Quinn was taken in the 1st Round, let's try and take advantage of that FOR ONCE!!!

[Hi Oktane]

Quinn was taken in the 1st Round, let's try and take advantage of that FOR ONCE!!!

Agree. Trade him NOW for a proven starter versus next year for a 5th rounder.

[waborat]

Quinn was taken in the 1st Round, let's try and take advantage of that FOR ONCE!!!

Agree. Trade him NOW for a proven starter versus next year for a 5th rounder.

+1

[Triple-S]

I think I'm the only one on this whole board who doesn't want CutlerF***er on this team, especially for that lopsided ass trade.

Cutler is a Me first type of guy, BQ isn't, or hasn't proven to be. I don't want this trade to go down, and I doubt it will.

UNWAR CUTLER WEARING ORANGE AND BROWN.

WAR US TRADING DA SOMEWHERE FOR A 2ND-3RD ROUND PICK.

[waborat]

I don't want this trade to go down, and I doubt it will.

It'll go down like the Amare, Shaq, Antoine, Camby, Butler, LT, LJ, & Killa did....down to the dump

We love to speculate (and we don't even get paid to do it)....sometimes I wonder who the bigger asses are? us or Screamin' Steven?

Good Grief, what did we all do before the world wide web

[justmebd]

I seriously do not understand why so many people have decided Brady Quinn sucks after what little we've seen of him. It really makes no sense at all.

But ok, knock yourselves out. I'll be staying in this little place called reality because I'm tired of fooling myself.

[GreatGoo]

I seriously do not understand why so many people have decided Brady Quinn sucks after what little we've seen of him. It really makes no sense at all.

But ok, knock yourselves out. I'll be staying in this little place called reality because I'm tired of fooling myself.

I'm all for Cutler. You know why?

Some experts say he might be the next QB superstar in this league. I'll take that than risking it on Brady. I know we haven't seen enough of Brady to make a decision but at this point I don't care. I don't want to take another risk. I want a QB that is already proven and at times is one of the leagues best young stars.

Brady? I don't know. He could be good/great with time. He could also make us wish we had DA starting again. At this point it is a big unknown.

[noles1]

I don't want this trade to go down, and I doubt it will.

It'll go down like the Amare, Shaq, Antoine, Camby, Butler, LT, LJ, & Killa did....down to the dump

We love to speculate (and we don't even get paid to do it)....sometimes I wonder who the bigger asses are? us or Screamin' Steven?

Good Grief, what did we all do before the world wide web

That said, John Clayton is the one running with this rumor and frankly I don't see anything to it.

[216]

I'm all for Cutler. You know why?

Some experts say he might be the next QB superstar in this league. I'll take that than risking it on Brady.

Some "experts" are saying Quinn might be the next QB superstar in this league as well.

So you are more willing to take the risk on Cutler then Quinn?

[Hydra Melee]

I'm all for Cutler. You know why?

Some experts say he might be the next QB superstar in this league. I'll take that than risking it on Brady.

Some "experts" are saying Quinn might be the next QB superstar in this league as well.

So you are more willing to take the risk on Cutler then Quinn?

Absolutely.

Good Grief, what did we all do before the world wide web

Buy magazines at the gas station and then hide them in the Scrabble box.

[Magic Brownies]

I'm all for Cutler. You know why?

Some experts say he might be the next QB superstar in this league. I'll take that than risking it on Brady. I know we haven't seen enough of Brady to make a decision but at this point I don't care. I don't want to take another risk. I want a QB that is already proven and at times is one of the leagues best young stars.

Brady? I don't know. He could be good/great with time. He could also make us wish we had DA starting again. At this point it is a big unknown.

Those same "experts" were saying the same bullshit about DA in 2007.

It's all a fuckin crapshoot man. Past performance does not dictate future results. You take the same risk in either scenario.

I want to see what Quinn can do before we trade him away. We aren't winning the division this year with Quinn or with Cutler. So what's the fuckin difference. Let's see if Quinn can become the next QB superstar in the league. And maybe after this year's and next year's draft, we can compete.

[Chris]

I'm all for Cutler. You know why?

Some experts say he might be the next QB superstar in this league. I'll take that than risking it on Brady.

Some "experts" are saying Quinn might be the next QB superstar in this league as well.

So you are more willing to take the risk on Cutler then Quinn?

Who? Everyone I've seen says he will probably be decent to good.

[GreatGoo]

I'm all for Cutler. You know why?

Some experts say he might be the next QB superstar in this league. I'll take that than risking it on Brady.

Some "experts" are saying Quinn might be the next QB superstar in this league as well.

So you are more willing to take the risk on Cutler then Quinn?

Really? Who?

[216]

I'm all for Cutler. You know why?

Some experts say he might be the next QB superstar in this league. I'll take that than risking it on Brady.

Some "experts" are saying Quinn might be the next QB superstar in this league as well.

So you are more willing to take the risk on Cutler then Quinn?

Who? Everyone I've seen says he will probably be decent to good.

Shit!!!! the name of that scout that was on The Cleveland Exp slips me.

Ya know the one that said he ranks BQ in the top 4 and the other three have won rings.

So you got me!!!

But by "Experts" I mean the talking heads with perfect suits at ESPN and the NFL network.
If you are asking for a list names. Well I dont have one.

But I think the point was "Experts" say alot of things. And for every expert you find that says Cutler in the next superstar you could just as easy find another who disagrees. And just like scouts they are wrong more then they are right. Its always a gamble.

[Clevus]

Cutler = Anderson.

Big Arm / small brain and mettle. So I will take my chances with Quinn and let Detroit, Tampa, and Minnesota fight over Cutler. That way Denver could have extra draft picks and might come knocking for DA. Do you really think Quinn can be worse than DA?

[TouchEmAllTime]

Cutler = Anderson.

Big Arm / small brain and mettle. So I will take my chances with Quinn and let Detroit, Tampa, and Minnesota fight over Cutler. That way Denver could have extra draft picks and might come knocking for DA. Do you really think Quinn can be worse than DA?

You can't get into Vandy with a small brain, and they won't come knocking for DA because this trade won't be made without Denver getting a QB back from someone, even if it ends up being a multiple team deal. I think I'm in favor of the Browns going after him, even though he's coming off as a cry baby now, he might also be highly motivated to show McDaniels and the rest of the league that it was a huge mistake for them to want Cassel and anger him enough that it got to the point he requested a trade and had to let him go.

[OrangeElf]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Lombardi is an idiot. Makes you wonder if he was the one calling the shots for the Browns draft picks like Touchdownless Tommy Vardell and Craig Powell back when Mumbles was here. He's now saying Brian Robiskie is a poor man's Larry Fitzgerald.

“I kind of think he’s a poor man’s Larry Fitzgerald,” Lombardi said on NFL Network. “Every time I watch him he makes a unique play. He’s always open. He knows how to get away from press coverage.

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/browns/ ... owns-radar

[jb]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Lombardi is an idiot. Makes you wonder if he was the one calling the shots for the Browns draft picks like Touchdownless Tommy Vardell and Craig Powell back when Mumbles was here. He's now saying Brian Robiskie is a poor man's Larry Fitzgerald.

“I kind of think he’s a poor man’s Larry Fitzgerald,” Lombardi said on NFL Network. “Every time I watch him he makes a unique play. He’s always open. He knows how to get away from press coverage.

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/browns/ ... owns-radar

If by "unique", you mean dropping a sure TD that led to the game changing avalanch in the BCS championship game vs LSU, then yeah. Sure.

[jb]

You can't get into Vandy with a small brain, .

Tony Rice got into ND with a combined V + M SAT in the low 700's.

USC is one of the more selective private schools in the nation.

The University of Miami has a strong middle 50% profile.

Personally, I don't know if Jay is whip-smart or a box of hair, but c'mon dawg.

[bw]

I don't get what all the excitement is about a QB with a record of 17-20. Sure, he threw for a lot of yardage but -- So what? It's the only thing the Donks had going for them. Except for the run game against the Browns. We were about the only team that could give up run yards to the worst run team in the history of civilization. To a 4th string fullback.

Not hatin' on the Browns. Just recalling the game and how we gave it away. By letting the Donks run against us. Still pisses me off.

Some of you hate Pittsburgh. I hate Denver.

I have TWO favorite teams in the NFL -- The Browns and whoever is playing the Donks.

The Donks should be dismantled and their players required to be grenade-catchers for the US Army Basic Training course. Their facilities should be blown up and sold as scrap. The whole fucking town should be bulldozed and turned into a parking lot for cross-country Tractor Trailer rigs and the team owner should have his head shaved and parachute-dropped into downtown Tehran with a Star of David tattoed on his forehead.

Sorry 'bout the rant.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

[noles1]

I've read his (Lombardi) stuff for nearly a year not and he has mentioned how wrong he was in those drafts.

He is actually pretty good at evaluation and his website has some terrific material. That said, I have emailed him and we've actually went back and forth with this (good natured I may add) but I feel he and other NFLers are jumping the gun on this.

While I agree that accuracy is an issue for Quinn to me this has turned into a murmur then everyone "hears" it. Similar to the Denver (Quinn/Rogers deal), where one hatches it up and everyone rather than evaluate for themselves just goes with it. Mike has actually replied that "that may be" but he just doesn't like what skill set Brady has at QB. My reply was that how many other "experts" would have picked Brees or Brady, or countless other QBs that didn't come with the highest regard? He agreed but in his opinion doesn't think Quinn will get the opportunity here. (I disagreed again)

Still I disagree with his assertions and conclusions thus far, I respect what the guy brings to the table. He is at least worth recognizing as one of the better analysts out there and his stuff on WR and balance is terrific.

I will say this, I think ultimately that the WRs at OSU (Robiske & Hartline) are going to have solid pro careers when it is all said and done.

By the way, he takes the Powell and Vardell stuff pretty well. Interestingly enough, he has said that it was between Powell and Curtis Martin and the consensus was that it was possible Martin would be there in the next round but Parcells snapped him up right before he got back to Cleveland. One of those behind-the-screens things that as a Browns fan you play "what could have been"...

[TouchEmAllTime]

I don't get what all the excitement is about a QB with a record of 17-20. Sure, he threw for a lot of yardage but -- So what? It's the only thing the Donks had going for them. Except for the run game against the Browns. We were about the only team that could give up run yards to the worst run team in the history of civilization. To a 4th string fullback.

Not hatin' on the Browns. Just recalling the game and how we gave it away. By letting the Donks run against us. Still pisses me off.

Some of you hate Pittsburgh. I hate Denver.

I have TWO favorite teams in the NFL -- The Browns and whoever is playing the Donks.

The Donks should be dismantled and their players required to be grenade-catchers for the US Army Basic Training course. Their facilities should be blown up and sold as scrap. The whole fucking town should be bulldozed and turned into a parking lot for cross-country Tractor Trailer rigs and the team owner should have his head shaved and parachute-dropped into downtown Tehran with a Star of David tattoed on his forehead.

Sorry 'bout the rant.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

12-1 when their sorry ass D doesn't give up 22 points or more.

[JCoz]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Lombardi is an idiot. Makes you wonder if he was the one calling the shots for the Browns draft picks like Touchdownless Tommy Vardell and Craig Powell back when Mumbles was here. He's now saying Brian Robiskie is a poor man's Larry Fitzgerald.

“I kind of think he’s a poor man’s Larry Fitzgerald,” Lombardi said on NFL Network. “Every time I watch him he makes a unique play. He’s always open. He knows how to get away from press coverage.

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/browns/ ... owns-radar

If by "unique", you mean dropping a sure TD that led to the game changing avalanch in the BCS championship game vs LSU, then yeah. Sure.

Right. Because Robo dropping that pass clearly made the defense give up 28 straight points.

I could understand that line the day after the game or hell even a month, but 14 months to think about it and that's the conclusion that you came to?

Bitter much? Robo was a very solid reciever and would make a great 2nd round pick for the Browns should they choose to pick him.

[pup]

If the Browns take Brian Robiskie in the 2nd round, holy hell.

[Triple-S]

Even the Chicago Bears could be in the market. Kyle Orton is a modern-day Mike Phipps. Don't forget that if Denver does trade Cutler, they develop an immediate need as well.

HEY!

He is not, I've seen a couple of bear games, believe me, he's a million times better under center than Rex "F*** it going deep" Grossman.

Orton would've won the Heisman in '04, and Purdue would have been in a Rose Bowl at the very least if not for a Wisconsin player cheap shotting him.

[jb]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Lombardi is an idiot. Makes you wonder if he was the one calling the shots for the Browns draft picks like Touchdownless Tommy Vardell and Craig Powell back when Mumbles was here. He's now saying Brian Robiskie is a poor man's Larry Fitzgerald.

“I kind of think he’s a poor man’s Larry Fitzgerald,” Lombardi said on NFL Network. “Every time I watch him he makes a unique play. He’s always open. He knows how to get away from press coverage.

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/browns/ ... owns-radar

If by "unique", you mean dropping a sure TD that led to the game changing avalanch in the BCS championship game vs LSU, then yeah. Sure.

Right. Because Robo dropping that pass clearly made the defense give up 28 straight points.

I could understand that line the day after the game or hell even a month, but 14 months to think about it and that's the conclusion that you came to?

Bitter much?

Coz - are you really from Cleveland, or are you one of those sado-masochists like Bob Collins on the CSML who picked "Cleveland" out of a hat when choosing teams.

"Bitter"? Moi? A C-town life time sportsfan? Is the Pope an ex-Nazi Hitler Youth?

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

Now to the matter at hand.

Some plays are pivotal.

Think about how the Bucks got up early and had momentum. Think about LSU sputtering. If 'biske makes that catch, the Bucks go in up 14 at 1/2 time IIRC. The game is being played at their speed, on their pace, their game plan is being executed, and Beanie can carry the load shortening the game and keeping Boekman as a cog, not a 2nd down passer.

Instead, there's the drop, Spitler makes his dumb ass penaty, LSU scores, twice IIRC as the implosion of dumb mistakes continue, the Buckeye's locker room is chaos at halftime, and they unleashed the hounds.

That's how you get to that final score.

The Browns didn't lose to Denver when Bynar dropped the ball. Sure. Team loss. The Tribe didn't lose becasue of Mesa in '97. There's 28 outs and they went extras. But there are team losses, and there a pivotal plays when greatness or goathood is achieved.

'biske is a non-descript WR who might have a career as a backup. He's better than Hartline. That's his feight praise AFAIC .

[ProgRocker]

'biske is a non-descript WR who might have a career as a backup. He's better than Hartline. That's his feight praise AFAIC .

Geez, I dunno ... considering the Buckeyes' QBs weren't exactly Peyton Mannings themselves I'm pretty f'n impressed by their play.

I don't know if Robiske is worth a 2nd, but a 3rd if they get one? Hell, yeah - I take him and try to mold him into the next Jurivicus.

[JCoz]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Lombardi is an idiot. Makes you wonder if he was the one calling the shots for the Browns draft picks like Touchdownless Tommy Vardell and Craig Powell back when Mumbles was here. He's now saying Brian Robiskie is a poor man's Larry Fitzgerald.

“I kind of think he’s a poor man’s Larry Fitzgerald,” Lombardi said on NFL Network. “Every time I watch him he makes a unique play. He’s always open. He knows how to get away from press coverage.

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/browns/ ... owns-radar

If by "unique", you mean dropping a sure TD that led to the game changing avalanch in the BCS championship game vs LSU, then yeah. Sure.

Right. Because Robo dropping that pass clearly made the defense give up 28 straight points.

I could understand that line the day after the game or hell even a month, but 14 months to think about it and that's the conclusion that you came to?

Bitter much?

Coz - are you really from Cleveland, or are you one of those sado-masochists like Bob Collins on the CSML who picked "Cleveland" out of a hat when choosing teams.

"Bitter"? Moi? A C-town life time sportsfan? Is the Pope an ex-Nazi Hitler Youth?

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

Now to the matter at hand.

Some plays are pivotal.

Think about how the Bucks got up early and had momentum. Think about LSU sputtering. If 'biske makes that catch, the Bucks go in up 14 at 1/2 time IIRC. The game is being played at their speed, on their pace, their game plan is being executed, and Beanie can carry the load shortening the game and keeping Boekman as a cog, not a 2nd down passer.

Instead, there's the drop, Spitler makes his dumb ass penaty, LSU scores, twice IIRC as the implosion of dumb mistakes continue, the Buckeye's locker room is chaos at halftime, and they unleashed the hounds.

That's how you get to that final score.

The Browns didn't lose to Denver when Bynar dropped the ball. Sure. Team loss. The Tribe didn't lose becasue of Mesa in '97. There's 28 outs and they went extras. But there are team losses, and there a pivotal plays when greatness or goathood is achieved.

'biske is a non-descript WR who might have a career as a backup. He's better than Hartline. That's his feight praise AFAIC .

Yeah, well what you're saying would make sense only if you never watched LSU play under miles besides that one game. You are inside the bubble of one game. In reality, LSU under miles has shown that type of personality as a team in many, many games.

I am well aware of how one play can set off events, I just disagree about this game. I thought that right after the game, but now after seeing LSU do this over and over I realize it was less about us than I thought. That and we were significantly less talented than LSU. If it wasn't the blocked punt, they simply would have found another play to get riled up on. If you think OSU scores that TD and LSU rolls over, well, you just don't know much about LSU.

Robo will have a much better career than a backup, I'll gladly bring this back up in about 3 years. No point in arguing futher, were are pretty far apart on that one.

[JCoz]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Lombardi is an idiot. Makes you wonder if he was the one calling the shots for the Browns draft picks like Touchdownless Tommy Vardell and Craig Powell back when Mumbles was here. He's now saying Brian Robiskie is a poor man's Larry Fitzgerald.

“I kind of think he’s a poor man’s Larry Fitzgerald,” Lombardi said on NFL Network. “Every time I watch him he makes a unique play. He’s always open. He knows how to get away from press coverage.

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/browns/ ... owns-radar

If by "unique", you mean dropping a sure TD that led to the game changing avalanch in the BCS championship game vs LSU, then yeah. Sure.

Right. Because Robo dropping that pass clearly made the defense give up 28 straight points.

I could understand that line the day after the game or hell even a month, but 14 months to think about it and that's the conclusion that you came to?

Bitter much?

Think about how the Bucks got up early and had momentum. Think about LSU sputtering. If 'biske makes that catch, the Bucks go in up 14 at 1/2 time IIRC. The game is being played at their speed, on their pace, their game plan is being executed, and Beanie can carry the load shortening the game and keeping Boekman as a cog, not a 2nd down passer.

And not to be rude, but I'm fairly certain you DO NOT remember that 2nd quarter correctly, considering LSU scored first, and then they blocked that punt with more than 10 minutes remaining in the quarter. Then they scored another TD, followed by another buckeye possesion and TO and then LSU scored another TD.

The tide started turning in the first quarter when we were inside the 10 and we had a penalty which forced a FG, so instead of being up 14-0 its 10-0. Then we had several defensive penalties which helped LSU score that first TD. Thats all before rbo's drop and subsequent blocked FG. There were so many mistakes before and after that drop that its ridiculous to point to that one play.

[jb]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Lombardi is an idiot. Makes you wonder if he was the one calling the shots for the Browns draft picks like Touchdownless Tommy Vardell and Craig Powell back when Mumbles was here. He's now saying Brian Robiskie is a poor man's Larry Fitzgerald.

“I kind of think he’s a poor man’s Larry Fitzgerald,” Lombardi said on NFL Network. “Every time I watch him he makes a unique play. He’s always open. He knows how to get away from press coverage.

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/browns/ ... owns-radar

If by "unique", you mean dropping a sure TD that led to the game changing avalanch in the BCS championship game vs LSU, then yeah. Sure.

Right. Because Robo dropping that pass clearly made the defense give up 28 straight points.

I could understand that line the day after the game or hell even a month, but 14 months to think about it and that's the conclusion that you came to?

Bitter much?

Think about how the Bucks got up early and had momentum. Think about LSU sputtering. If 'biske makes that catch, the Bucks go in up 14 at 1/2 time IIRC. The game is being played at their speed, on their pace, their game plan is being executed, and Beanie can carry the load shortening the game and keeping Boekman as a cog, not a 2nd down passer.

And not to be rude, but I'm fairly certain you DO NOT remember that 2nd quarter correctly, considering LSU scored first, and then they blocked that punt with more than 10 minutes remaining in the quarter. Then they scored another TD, followed by another buckeye possesion and TO and then LSU scored another TD.

The tide started turning in the first quarter when we were inside the 10 and we had a penalty which forced a FG, so instead of being up 14-0 its 10-0. Then we had several defensive penalties which helped LSU score that first TD. Thats all before rbo's drop and subsequent blocked FG. There were so many mistakes before and after that drop that its ridiculous to point to that one play.

be as rude as you wanna be. No worries. For real.

And I find it incomprehenible that you can not know me at all and still know that perhaps my memory could be cloudy from a big football game.

LMMFAO. Are you clairvoyant? Do you have ESPN ?

Watched it at the Wing Warehouse in Akron and stubled upon the OSU alumni association. Free drinks were flowing for the house.

I'll stillmaintain that Robo's Eff up was key in that game, and yeah, if you ain't bitter, you ain't Cleveland.

Sort of like a David Allen Coe derivative.

Peace out, Coz.

[JCoz]

quote]

be as rude as you wanna be. No worries. For real.

And I find it incomprehenible that you can not know me at all and still know that perhaps my memory could be cloudy from a big football game.

LMMFAO. Are you clairvoyant? Do you have ESPN ?

Watched it at the Wing Warehouse in Akron and stubled upon the OSU alumni association. Free drinks were flowing for the house.

I'll stillmaintain that Robo's Eff up was key in that game, and yeah, if you ain't bitter, you ain't Cleveland.

Sort of like a David Allen Coe derivative.

Peace out, Coz.[/quote]

JB,

I can't tell if you were being sarcastic in your second sentence.

You said that if they scored that TD they go into the half up 14. Well there was more than 10 minutes left after that, and the score was 10-10. So they would have been up 7 with 10 left in the quarter.....You said "IIRC"...well, I think its clear that you dont, for a multitude of reasons, which you laid out yourself.

Don't you think that you might be wrong about other things in the game? I mean, I don't get why you would want to maintain an opinion that you know is based on bogus memories...

I know some Cleveland fans are bitter, but this place is on another level. Maybe its just seems more sour in writing....

[pup]

quote]

be as rude as you wanna be. No worries. For real.

And I find it incomprehenible that you can not know me at all and still know that perhaps my memory could be cloudy from a big football game.

LMMFAO. Are you clairvoyant? Do you have ESPN ?

Watched it at the Wing Warehouse in Akron and stubled upon the OSU alumni association. Free drinks were flowing for the house.

I'll stillmaintain that Robo's Eff up was key in that game, and yeah, if you ain't bitter, you ain't Cleveland.

Sort of like a David Allen Coe derivative.

Peace out, Coz.

JB,

I can't tell if you were being sarcastic in your second sentence.

You said that if they scored that TD they go into the half up 14. Well there was more than 10 minutes left after that, and the score was 10-10. So they would have been up 7 with 10 left in the quarter.....You said "IIRC"...well, I think its clear that you dont, for a multitude of reasons, which you laid out yourself.

Don't you think that you might be wrong about other things in the game? I mean, I don't get why you would want to maintain an opinion that you know is based on bogus memories...

I know some Cleveland fans are bitter, but this place is on another level. Maybe its just seems more sour in writing....[/quote]

He is refering to the fact that everyone that knows him would know how shitfaced he was during that game, and the odds of his occasional good memory being top notch about those events are not very good.

[jb]

quote]

be as rude as you wanna be. No worries. For real.

And I find it incomprehenible that you can not know me at all and still know that perhaps my memory could be cloudy from a big football game.

LMMFAO. Are you clairvoyant? Do you have ESPN ?

Watched it at the Wing Warehouse in Akron and stubled upon the OSU alumni association. Free drinks were flowing for the house.

I'll stillmaintain that Robo's Eff up was key in that game, and yeah, if you ain't bitter, you ain't Cleveland.

Sort of like a David Allen Coe derivative.

Peace out, Coz.

JB,

I can't tell if you were being sarcastic in your second sentence.

You said that if they scored that TD they go into the half up 14. Well there was more than 10 minutes left after that, and the score was 10-10. So they would have been up 7 with 10 left in the quarter.....You said "IIRC"...well, I think its clear that you dont, for a multitude of reasons, which you laid out yourself.

Don't you think that you might be wrong about other things in the game? I mean, I don't get why you would want to maintain an opinion that you know is based on bogus memories...

I know some Cleveland fans are bitter, but this place is on another level. Maybe its just seems more sour in writing....

He is refering to the fact that everyone that knows him would know how shitfaced he was during that game, and the odds of his occasional good memory being top notch about those events are not very good.[/quote]

What Pup said, Coz.

And I'm pulling your TCE (TM) card.

I believe you are a web bot. This doesn't even register on the bitter scale. I left his daddy out of it.

[JCoz]

quote]

be as rude as you wanna be. No worries. For real.

And I find it incomprehenible that you can not know me at all and still know that perhaps my memory could be cloudy from a big football game.

LMMFAO. Are you clairvoyant? Do you have ESPN ?

Watched it at the Wing Warehouse in Akron and stubled upon the OSU alumni association. Free drinks were flowing for the house.

I'll stillmaintain that Robo's Eff up was key in that game, and yeah, if you ain't bitter, you ain't Cleveland.

Sort of like a David Allen Coe derivative.

Peace out, Coz.

JB,

I can't tell if you were being sarcastic in your second sentence.

You said that if they scored that TD they go into the half up 14. Well there was more than 10 minutes left after that, and the score was 10-10. So they would have been up 7 with 10 left in the quarter.....You said "IIRC"...well, I think its clear that you dont, for a multitude of reasons, which you laid out yourself.

Don't you think that you might be wrong about other things in the game? I mean, I don't get why you would want to maintain an opinion that you know is based on bogus memories...

I know some Cleveland fans are bitter, but this place is on another level. Maybe its just seems more sour in writing....

He is refering to the fact that everyone that knows him would know how shitfaced he was during that game, and the odds of his occasional good memory being top notch about those events are not very good.

What Pup said, Coz.

And I'm pulling your TCE (TM) card.

I believe you are a web bot. This doesn't even register on the bitter scale. I left his daddy out of it.[/quote]




Damn, well that was fast. I kept it for what, a week?

I wasn't reffering to this comment in particular concerning the bitterness, just my observation so far in the Browns forum here.

I've only been on buckeye boards for the last couple years. Buckeye fans can only bitch about so much. Being on a browns board is a completely different experience apparently, and I'm guessing bitterness just seems worse in writing.

As for being shitfaced and your memory, fuck it. What's the difference. Not my job to tell you what actually happened. Keep your scape goat. Whatever makes you happy. Oh, wait....nevermind. LOL.

[jb]

quote]

be as rude as you wanna be. No worries. For real.

And I find it incomprehenible that you can not know me at all and still know that perhaps my memory could be cloudy from a big football game.

LMMFAO. Are you clairvoyant? Do you have ESPN ?

Watched it at the Wing Warehouse in Akron and stubled upon the OSU alumni association. Free drinks were flowing for the house.

I'll stillmaintain that Robo's Eff up was key in that game, and yeah, if you ain't bitter, you ain't Cleveland.

Sort of like a David Allen Coe derivative.

Peace out, Coz.

JB,

I can't tell if you were being sarcastic in your second sentence.

You said that if they scored that TD they go into the half up 14. Well there was more than 10 minutes left after that, and the score was 10-10. So they would have been up 7 with 10 left in the quarter.....You said "IIRC"...well, I think its clear that you dont, for a multitude of reasons, which you laid out yourself.

Don't you think that you might be wrong about other things in the game? I mean, I don't get why you would want to maintain an opinion that you know is based on bogus memories...

I know some Cleveland fans are bitter, but this place is on another level. Maybe its just seems more sour in writing....

He is refering to the fact that everyone that knows him would know how shitfaced he was during that game, and the odds of his occasional good memory being top notch about those events are not very good.

What Pup said, Coz.

And I'm pulling your TCE (TM) card.

I believe you are a web bot. This doesn't even register on the bitter scale. I left his daddy out of it.

Damn, well that was fast. I kept it for what, a week?

I wasn't reffering to this comment in particular concerning the bitterness, just my observation so far in the Browns forum here.

I've only been on buckeye boards for the last couple years. Buckeye fans can only bitch about so much. Being on a browns board is a completely different experience apparently, and I'm guessing bitterness just seems worse in writing.

As for being shitfaced and your memory, fuck it. What's the difference. Not my job to tell you what actually happened. Keep your scape goat. Whatever makes you happy. Oh, wait....nevermind. LOL.[/quote]

Stick around, Coz.

You'll pick up differentiating retrun posts your way as being a those of someone trying deliberately to be memebr as opposed to directing self-depricating sarcasm at himself soon enough.

You are definately a Buckeye Fan more than a Browns fan. I sense....... hope.... in you.

Foolish man.

[Bob Fergus]

I'm going to re-hijack this thread from Havanna to the original take of Cutler's situation melting and an opportunity being presented for the Browns to take advantage of.

Just a few points to clarify why the Denver situation is an opportunity.

Cutler:
» Guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.
» No. 1 in fewest percentage of sacks, with 11 in 627 pass plays, equates to one sack every 57 pass attempts.
» No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down. The average NFL team converted 39.5 percent of its third downs; Cutler converted 47.5 percent.
» No. 3 in the AFC in yards per pass play (7.3).
» threw for more yards than Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo and Ben Roethlisberger, etc et el.
» Just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season: Peyton Hillis (129 against the Jets) and Michael Pittman (109 against the Jacksonville Jaguars) and had to deal with 7 different RBs going down with injury.
» Had eight games of 300-plus passing yards (five of those at 350 or more), connecting for 15 touchdowns in those contests.

More

Through three seasons, quarterbacks at age 25:

Games Started
John Elway 40
Eli Manning 39
Jeff George 38
Troy Aikman 38
Jay Cutler 37
Joe Montana 24
Philip Rivers 18

Completions
Jay Cutler 762
Eli Manning 690
John Elway 664
Jeff George 640
Troy Aikman 618
Joe Montana 500
Philip Rivers 301

Passing Yards
Jay Cutler 9024
Eli Manning 8079
John Elway 8152
Jeff George 7025
Troy Aikman 7082
Joe Montana 5456
Philip Rivers 3536

Touchdowns
Jay Cutler 54
Eli Manning 54
John Elway 47
Joe Montana 35
Jeff George 33
Troy Aikman 31
Philip Rivers 23

Interceptions
Philip Rivers 10
Joe Montana 21
Jay Cutler 37
Jeff George 40
Eli Manning 44
Troy Aikman 46
John Elway 52

What some are saying about Jay Cutler's talent and the rarity of this opportunity.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Alc7cyKYiSfj6CsXwQSMlJRDubYF?slug=jc-2006qbclass031809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Mike Martz:

I love Jay Cutler. When he was coming out in the draft, really, I was enraptured by his talent. I thought he was really, really special. We brought him in to Detroit before the draft and I talked to him for a long time. I like his makeup. I think he’s physically tough and mentally tough. I think he’s got everything you want in a quarterback.”

An NFL Offensive Coordinator:

“… We’re talking about a franchise quarterback. This guy is the real deal when it comes to pure talent … Yeah, he has some issues that bug you. He’s kind of surly, from what I hear, and not a great leader yet and I emphasize yet because he was a great leader at Vanderbilt. All that stuff between him and Philip Rivers is just a waste of time. As a coach, you’re saying to yourself, ‘Who cares?’ But you know that there’s jealousy out there. If it makes him work harder, hey, that’s not a bad thing.”

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03182009/sports/jets/boomer__jets_gotta_go_jay_walkin_160143.htm

Boomer Esiason, whose opinion was direct and strong: Go get the disgruntled Bronco QB at almost any cost.
"I'm telling you, if I could get this kid, I would go guns a-blazing and try to get him," Esiason said.
"I don't know what it would take, but he's a kid that can play here for the next 10 years. This is not Brett Favre, a one-year Band-Aid. This is a totally different story.
"This is a kid who, if he does get traded - which I think is going to happen - you're getting him . . . smack dab in midst of his prime.
"He's not going to get any better than he will be in the next five or six years."
Esiason, .... said he's certain the Jets are eyeing Cutler.
… Asked, if he's the GM, what he would give the Broncos in a trade for Cutler, Esiason said, "I don't know what it would take. ...
"You have to remember you're also doing Denver a favor because he's a disgruntled player. There's also talk of Buffalo possibly trading Trent Edwards for Cutler. If I'm a Jet fan, I want Jay Cutler. Do I want Kellen Clemens or Jay Cutler? I'll take Jay Cutler over Kellen Clemens, believe me."

The Browns are being mentioned for a couple of reasons:
- The Mangini/Kok/McDaniels connection
- The Patriot offensive system that is being installed by McDaniels
- The fact that McDaniels wants/needs his QB to fit that system since he needs to win right away because he's replacing a coaching ledgend and he threw out the former and highly sucsessful (2nd best in the league) offense and fired all of those coaches.

Don't dismiss the possibility of something happening as soon as this weekend at the owners meetings.

The former Jets coach has two viable quarterbacks, Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson, neither of whom has received an endorsement from Mangini. Quinn might be appealing to Broncos coach Josh McDaniels because he played at Notre Dame under Charlie Weis, who used to work with McDaniels in New England. Quinn is well-versed in the Weis/Patriots offensive system, which McDaniels will use in Denver.
That means the Browns could emerge as the third team in a potential three-way trade. The main components of a three-way deal would be the Jets getting Cutler, the Broncos getting Quinn and the Browns getting a premium draft pick (or picks) to help their rebuilding process. Without Mangini, the Jets would be hard-pressed to swing the deal.
Three-way trades are rare in the NFL, but Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum teamed up with the Broncos and Falcons in a 2006 trade that sent defensive end John Abraham to the Falcons.
It's possible that trade talks could commence at the NFL owners' meetings, which begin Sunday in Dana Point, Calif.

[yogi]

You cannot keep making the arguement that Quinn would be more wanted in Denver because he has run the type of O that McDaniels would want to run when....

we just brought in an OC that wants to run that SAME STYLE OFFENSE AND WE ALREADY HAVE THAT QB IN QUINN!

Sorry for shouting.

[Bob Fergus]

You cannot keep making the arguement that Quinn would be more wanted in Denver because he has run the type of O that McDaniels would want to run when....

we just brought in an OC that wants to run that SAME STYLE OFFENSE AND WE ALREADY HAVE THAT QB IN QUINN!

Sorry for shouting.

Keep making an argument of Quinn being MORE wanted? Keep? Um, can you show me ONE TIME I made that argument about Quinn being MORE wanted in Denver than Cutler?

We know Jay isn't happy with the way he's been treated in Denver.

Well at least BQ is happy right?

Uh oh.

http://blogs.rotoworld.com/Fantasy_Football/2009/03/lombardi_quinns_support_has_le_1.php

Lombardi: Quinn's support has 'left the building'
... when listening to Mike Lombardi talk Brady Quinn.

"I'm just hearing things out of Cleveland that don't make me feel Brady Quinn is part of their future. ... (Quinn's) support has left the building. We used to call it sponsorship at the Raiders. When your sponsorship goes, you aren't the same player."

Quinn's "sponsorship" was given out by former GM Phil Savage, and he's long gone. We've documented that Lombardi isn't a huge fan of Quinn recently, saying he lacked accuracy. That's an opinion that doesn't really matter. It matters if the Browns agree with him. It's looking more like they do.

And you thought Eric Mangini was unpopular in Cleveland now. Wait until he trades boy wonder!

I am in the minority thinking that Jay Cutler's most likely 2009 home remains in Denver. But if he gets dealt, it's hard to imagine the Browns not being involved. They are the only team with decent young quarterbacks to deal.

This has been my view all along.

Opportunity and we are the only player with a young QB who fits the system by McDaniels.

[mattvan1]

An added benefit is that Cutler can teach the Zone Blocking scheme as well while he's in Cleveland.

[Triple-S]

I don't want Jeff George Jr.

Said it about 10000x's, he's a crybaby and a me first player, and the fact their is Browns fans out there who want him is pretty ridiculous.

Is he going to help the recieving corp out? NO

Is he going to help us get meaner 'Backers? NO

Is he going to help us get a better ground game? NO

Seriously, Denver can keep him, or THE JETS can trade for him. I'm not interested. Our goal right now should be to make ourselves better in the three areas I've mentioned above, We are FINE at Quarterback. Quinn is THE GUY, and the type of guy you want starting at QB. A team oriented guy, who's lifelong dream it's been to play for the Browns.

Get me some linebackers who are going to leave an imprint of Ben Roethlisberger in the crappy turf of Condiment Stadium, don't get me some whiny a-hole who hails from f---in' Santa Claus, Indiana.

These rumors are as lame and repetitive as the "Callahan" sprint commercials. And that says a lot.

[ProgRocker]

Out of curiosity, how many of Lombardi's "scoops" have panned out correctly in, say, the last year or so?

EDIT to add: let's remember that as short as two years ago, Lombardi was pals with Shanahan in Denver. Somehow I would think this may have something to do with sowing these trade-Brady rumors (maybe a way to screw around with both teams)? I'm not buying this crap until and unless someone like Clayton or Schecter confirms it.

[Lubber]

Fergus,
How could you forget Marino????

Games Started
Marino - 43
John Elway 40
Eli Manning 39
Jeff George 38
Troy Aikman 38
Jay Cutler 37
Joe Montana 24
Philip Rivers 18

Completions
Marino 871
Jay Cutler 762
Eli Manning 690
John Elway 664
Jeff George 640
Troy Aikman 618
Joe Montana 500
Philip Rivers 301

Passing Yards
Marino 11432
Jay Cutler 9024
Eli Manning 8079
John Elway 8152
Jeff George 7025
Troy Aikman 7082
Joe Montana 5456
Philip Rivers 3536

Touchdowns
Marino 98
Jay Cutler 54
Eli Manning 54
John Elway 47
Joe Montana 35
Jeff George 33
Troy Aikman 31
Philip Rivers 23

Interceptions
Philip Rivers 10
Joe Montana 21
Jay Cutler 37
Jeff George 40
Marino 44
Eli Manning 44
Troy Aikman 46
John Elway 52

Cutler's yards/TDs, etc are inflated because his defense stinks. Why do we want another cry baby here to whine along with Braylon?

[Bob Fergus]

Fergus,
How could you forget Marino????

Games Started
Marino - 43
John Elway 40
Eli Manning 39
Jeff George 38
Troy Aikman 38
Jay Cutler 37
Joe Montana 24
Philip Rivers 18

Completions
Marino 871
Jay Cutler 762
Eli Manning 690
John Elway 664
Jeff George 640
Troy Aikman 618
Joe Montana 500
Philip Rivers 301

Passing Yards
Marino 11432
Jay Cutler 9024
Eli Manning 8079
John Elway 8152
Jeff George 7025
Troy Aikman 7082
Joe Montana 5456
Philip Rivers 3536

Touchdowns
Marino 98
Jay Cutler 54
Eli Manning 54
John Elway 47
Joe Montana 35
Jeff George 33
Troy Aikman 31
Philip Rivers 23

Interceptions
Philip Rivers 10
Joe Montana 21
Jay Cutler 37
Jeff George 40
Marino 44
Eli Manning 44
Troy Aikman 46
John Elway 52

Cutler's yards/TDs, etc are inflated because his defense stinks. Why do we want another cry baby here to whine along with Braylon?

Cutler's stats are inflated because his defense stinks? Can we say the same thing about Marino or did he have the burden of playing with great defenses that adversely impacted his statistical line?

I'm curious about one thing affecting Jay's stats that you failed to mention.

Do you think this factors into his stats at all?

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24420121/

Cutler: 'Overwhelming' to get diabetes news
25-year-old Broncos quarterback diagnosed with Type I form of illness
... The 6-foot-3 Cutler said he dropped from 238 pounds to 203 by season’s end but is back up to 220 since beginning insulin injections after he was diagnosed last month.

“I’ve felt great. I’ve felt 100 times better,” he said. “Just a difference now and four, five weeks ago is tremendous. It’s hard to explain what you feel like when your levels are at 400, 500, it’s different. You don’t have any energy, you don’t really want to do anything, you sleep a lot. It’s tough to deal with.”

Cutler said he had all the classic signs of diabetes: unexplained weight loss, frequent urination, constant thirst, lack of energy. Without a family history of the disease, though, he never suspected that was the culprit.

Cutler, the 11th pick in the 2006 draft, threw for nearly 3,500 yards and 20 touchdowns last season but the Broncos missed the playoffs for a second straight year. It was obvious as the season wore on that his arm strength wasn’t what it was his rookie year, when he started the final five weeks of the season.

“I’m not going to blame it on that, but thinking back, there were some throws that didn’t have a lot on them,” Cutler said. “I was able to go out and perform, I just wasn’t that energetic. I was tired. After the games, I was completely wiped out. Some games I didn’t do a whole lot. There was something wrong.”

In the weight room, he couldn’t lift as much, and when he and teammates Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler gathered in Atlanta over the winter to work out together, Cutler said there were times he couldn’t get out of bed in the morning he was so exhausted.

“They would ask me what was up and I would say, ’I don’t know. I’m just so tired,”’ Cutler recalled. When he went back to campus to visit friends at Vanderbilt, they, too, wondered what was wrong: “I was pale, I was skinny, I couldn’t run. It was pretty dramatic.”

Now, he feels like a million bucks and he’s eager to get into practices and exhibitions to see how his body reacts and how he can keep his blood sugars in control during competition.

Jay's rookie season he only started the last five games of that year, then in his first year as a starter he was dealing with untreated Type I diabetes.

Then last year he was diagnosed and treated for his diabetic condition.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-thegameface051608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

...he was exhibiting many of the symptoms associated with untreated high blood sugars, including severe thirst, dry mouth, fatigue, frequent urination and ravenous hunger.

"I was just crushing food," he recalls. "I was eating six meals a day – I'd eat a meal and like 30 minutes later I'd be ready to eat again. Yet I kept losing weight, and they were telling me it was the stress. I was like, 'I'm not that stressed.' I mean, my jeans were falling off my body and I was all pale. I looked like hell."

By all rights Cutler, who completed 63.6 percent of his passes while throwing for 20 touchdowns against 14 interceptions in '07, should have played like hell down the stretch. Yet remarkably, though the Broncos lost four of their last six games to finish 7-9, Cutler put up relatively decent numbers during that span. Looking back, he admits, "Those last six or seven games, I was finished. I'd go into games tired and didn't really understand why. I lost a lot of zip on my passes. I was missing deep balls and couldn't figure out why they were falling short."

He felt even worse after the season, especially during the month he spent in Atlanta working out with teammates Tony Scheffler and Brandon Marshall. "I'd always prided myself on working out and being strong in the weight room, but I had nothing," Cutler says. "I'd get through about half the workout and just be done. I'd go home and sleep all day long, and it's not like I'd been out partying the night before. I was taking every nutritional pill and drink known to man, and they weren't working."

Stats from his rookie season in 2006 to last year when he was being treated and was finally healthy.

2006 (age 23) (games started 5) (games played 5)
Attempts 137 Completions 81 Percent 59.1%
Yards 1,001 TDs 9 INTs 5 Yard per Att 7.3 SK percent 8.7%

2007 (age 24) (games started 16) (games played 16)
Attempts 467 Completions 297 Percent 63.6%
Yards 3,497 TDs 20 INTs 14 Yard per Att 7.5 SK percent 5.5%

2008 (age 25) (games started 16) (games played 16)
Attempts 616 Completions 384 Percent 62.3%
Yards 4,526 TDs 25 INTs 18 Yard per Att 7.3 SK percent 1.8%

Looks as though he improved and he played with the same defense in 2007 as he did in 2008 but in 08 he was successfully treated for his diabetes.

This kid is a stud and if the only slam you can place on him is that he didn't toss up Hall of Fame Dan Marino stats over the first three seasons, one where Jay was an untreated Type I diabetic then I think I'll take it.

[Lubber]

This kid is a stud and if the only slam you can place on him is that he didn't toss up Hall of Fame Dan Marino stats over the first three seasons, one where Jay was an untreated Type I diabetic then I think I'll take it.

My slam was not that he could not put up Marino numbers (nobody is even close), but rather the fact that he seems to be a bit of a whiner. I can appreciate the feel good story of playing with Diabetes, etc. The Browns need a leader at QB, and he does not seem to be that type of person to me. Loads of talent. No question about that.

[bw]

McDaniels is supposed to not be wild about Cutler. And I'd say he knows a thing or three about QBs.

If McDaniels don't want him, why should we? I don't get it. But, there's a lot of things I don't get.

I think it's about the money. Follow the money, show me the money. Cutler feigns indignation because he's getting paid $1.07 Million this year and if he gets traded, he's looking at a minimum signing bonus of ten to fifteen million.

Add to that the fact that (from what I understand) scumbag agents only get paid on new contracts and I think that's limited to two (2) percent of the total contract by the NFLPA, paid up front at signing. Which is why you see absurd contracts with all the money back-loaded that will never see the light of day.

Like I've said many times before, there can be no freak show without an audience.

[Bob Fergus]

McDaniels is supposed to not be wild about Cutler. And I'd say he knows a thing or three about QBs.

If McDaniels don't want him, why should we?

I would't place too much emphasis on the brilliance of Josh McDaniels and his ability to make sound judgements. He's not exacly doing a bang-up job in Denver and people are already questioning his abilities to handle the job.

Also Mickey-D may not value Jay Cutler but their are NFL teams lined up like dive bombers over a Jab aircraft carries to sink Denver if they are willing to dish Cut.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_11968834?source=commented-broncos

… The breakdown with McDaniels has caused Cutler to formally request a trade, a demand he made a week ago. At least 10 teams have called to express interest, and the Broncos are listening. They will arrive at the NFL meetings that start today in Dana Point, Calif., with the intention of holding on to Cutler, but keeping their options open if the coach-quarterback relationship is irreparable.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_11970093?source=commented-

… There are enough NFL general managers who drool at the sight of Cutler's arm that the Broncos should be able to trade him for a promising young QB for McDaniels to groom and at least one valuable draft pick to rebuild Denver's sorry defense.

We are the team that is mentioned the most due to the BQ/McD connection via Mangini and Wies.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9345936/Cutler%27s-agent-Cooks-up-another-drama

The league's owner meetings begin Sunday in Dana Point, Ca. and Denver's Pat Bowlen and McDaniels will be able to talk directly to any potential bidders for Cutler. Tampa Bay, Detroit and Minnesota make the most sense because all three teams need a starting quarterback.
... The dilemma for Denver is what quarterback do they pursue or accept as compensation? The cupboard is pretty bare, and that's why Cleveland is mentioned (Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson)
...It would be ridiculous for Denver to trade Cutler to Detroit for the first overall pick, and thus be forced to pay either Georgia's Matt Stafford or USC's Mark Sanchez about $33 million in guaranteed money if they deem either one of those prospects as a decent replacement. Both Tampa and Detroit have mid-first round picks, but it's unlikely either of those quarterbacks would be available at No. 19 or No. 20, respectively.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest

… If the Broncos were to trade Cutler, it would create another problem: Who would replace Cutler as the quarterback in Denver? Chris Simms, who was just signed to be Cutler's backup? Or would it be a free-agent stop-gap signee such as Jeff Garcia?
These are not strong options, especially for a team that had a happy 25-year-old Pro Bowl player as their quarterback less than three weeks ago.
One possibility would be to trade Cutler in a package to the Cleveland Browns for Brady Quinn. At least then they'd have a quarterback who could potentially become a legitimate NFL player.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2009/03/16/2009-03-16_jets_keeping_close_eye_on_denver_broncos-1.html

… Chances are, the Jets wouldn't be able to satisfy the Broncos' demands because Denver almost certainly would want a starting quarterback in return. The Jets' best bargaining chip is their first-round draft pick, 17th overall. Cutler reportedly is interested in the Titans and Bears. The Browns, with Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson, could have the ammunition to strike a deal for Cutler.

The rift is real and the smart money is saying that Cutler is going to get traded. Former Browns WR the original ocho cinco #85 Dave Logan is a play-by-play announcer out here in Colorado for one of the sports talk radio stations. He puts the odds of Cutler remaining at only 15%

Listening to Dave Logan on KOA. In the first hour he gave some comments and then had Adam Schefter on in the 2nd hour.
First Logan's comments:
Logan did say he talked to McDaniels 1/2 hour before the show. Logan said it is his opinion that it is "85/15" that Cutler does not play with the Broncos this year. He said this isn't what McDaniels told him - just Logan's opinion of the situation.

... Logan said the team needs to find a resolution in the next week or so or the broncos will try to move Cutler.
Now some of you may say Logan is just a broadcaster so his opinion doesn't matter much. But he does have good contacts into the organization, he gave these opinions right after talking to Josh McDaniels, so I put alot of stock in what he says. Logan was careful not to share what he and McDaniels talked about, but still after that call it was Logan's opinion "85/15 chance Cutler is gone"
====
Then Logan had Adam Schefter on. Schefter didn't say anything too revealing except this:
"The shelf life of this story runs through the nfl draft. Lets say the broncos don't deal him by the nfl draft, then he's not getting traded. The focus will then shift to the relationship between these two men. Whether they can get to that point is a different issue.
You are going to hear from now to the nfl draft what the broncos options are, what they can get for Cutler, etc.
Teams are out there sniffing and putting together packages - I know that, this is not even a guess. Is there a team out there that can put together an attractive enough package to make denver bite? - that's the question.
The problem is that the teams that need qb's don't have qb's - Denver will not be getting a qb in return. Who are the broncos taking into the season as starting qb?"
Schefter concluded by saying "all (trade) options are now in play. I
wouldn't have said that a week ago."

BW:

I think it's about the money. Follow the money, show me the money. Cutler feigns indignation because he's getting paid $1.07 Million this year and if he gets traded, he's looking at a minimum signing bonus of ten to fifteen million.

It isn't about money, Jay put up his home for sale AND his parents home in Denver. The situation has gotten out of hand so from my vantage point I say that Jay is going to be Jay-Walking here soon and that this could be an opportunity for the Browns.

The oppotunity is that we are the only team with a QB (BQ) who is a perfect fit to complete a deal. I doubt it would come down to Cut for BQ but I don't think a three-way is out of the question. Heck McDaniels got himself into the soup by proposing a three-way and the Jets and Broncos are the last two teams to pull off a three-way so its within the realm of possiblities that something could happen very soon with the Browns being in the middle of talks and we don't seem to mind having the power position of any potential trade talks.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2009/03/terry_plutos_talkin_about_mang.html

CLEVELAND -- About the Browns ...
They are saying nothing in public or even as background on the quarterback situation. They want to keep everyone guessing, and so far, that's working.

[Triple-S]

ugh.

The Browns are NOT getting Cutler. This trade rumor is lame and we get screwed.

How about this?

Jets trade their first and third round pick to the Broncos for Cutler

Browns trade their 5th overall to the Broncos for their 12th, and 2nd (or 3rd) rounder. Broncos draft Mark Sanchez who is pretty similar to BQ. Browns get Maulauga with the 12th, and end up trading DA to the Panthers for their 2nd rounder, and maybe a 5th next year with incentives.

This is how we should look Draft wise following those trades.

1.)12
2.)37
2.)48
2.)50
2.)59
4.)100
6.)164

Everyone wins in this trade:
The Broncos get a QB that would fit McDaniels better, wouldn't complain, and again is like Quinn, without auctually being Quinn, they also get to keep another draft pick to use on a LBer.

Jets get a guy who they can move tickets sales with, and a guy to replace Farve with.

Browns get to keep Quinn, and get an extra Draft pick as part of the deal, we get to get a Major force at Middle Linebacker that we've never had in our who entire history.

[mult336]

If the browns can swap DA or Quinn for JC then i feel you really have proceed with caution. But we cannot afford to give up any picks in my book. This team in my book is still better off with DA or quinn starting keeping as many 4 rounder picks or better then to trade any picks away . This franchise needs too stick to a plan. Our former GM didnt stick too the plan and gambled a ton of picks for a couple linemen. I feel trading for Cutley makes us the same thin talented team with no depth and maybe a slightly better QB in the long run. Draft Picks, Draft Picks, young talent and depth is what the play should. I dont see any reason too deviate from it esp if we give up picks + quinn for cutler or DA and picks. Perhaps if you swing DA for a few picks and Quinn to Denver for Cutler then that may be a good compromise.