Broncos and QB Jay Cutler melting, could be a bargain

[pup]

BroncoFan - your choice of Anderson or Quinn plus Shaun Rogers for Cutler and #12. You buying?

[Lubber]

BroncoFan - your choice of Anderson or Quinn plus Shaun Rogers for Cutler and #12. You buying?

After reading their message boards, I would say they are almost divided 50-50. There is the faction that can't stand Cutler and his tissue crying ways, so they would love BQ/DA and Rogers. Then there is the faction that hates McD for lieing, so they want him ousted and JCut to be the man.

[Jennifer]

Cutler says he doesn't really want to go and ESPN radio mentioned this afternoon that when the Bears called Denver yesterday Denver told them they were not yet ready to talk trade.

Kissing and making up doesn't seem all that impossible.

[Ziner]

Cutler says he doesn't really want to go and ESPN radio mentioned this afternoon that when the Bears called Denver yesterday Denver told them they were not yet ready to talk trade.

Kissing and making up doesn't seem all that impossible.

I think Cutler got his bluff called. Wouldn't suprise me if he was just angling for a new contract and used this as an excuse to pout so they would then try to make him happy. Why the hell would he want to leave Denver when he could be sent to a place like Detroit or Cleveland. He is going to continue to backpedal, I think he doesnt want out and all he wanted is a contract. Now he looks like a bitch and may end up playing for an 0-16 team.

[jb]

Cutler says he doesn't really want to go and ESPN radio mentioned this afternoon that when the Bears called Denver yesterday Denver told them they were not yet ready to talk trade.

Kissing and making up doesn't seem all that impossible.

I heard that Jay's freind passed a note in lunch that he was just acting that was because he thought Josh was cute. But later on the bus Josh said he really did want to go with Jay afterall, and that the next note in morning homeroom would go from his freind to one of Jay';s friends and then to Jay.

Stay tuned!

All this does for me is realize that Randy could have done worse than KokMan, so I am no longer on suicide watch, and I would would be embarrassed as a fan if either of these morons were affiliated with my team. Needy cheerleader types straight out of Mean Girls.

From Shannahan and Elway to this. Ugh.

[Bob Fergus]

Bombs away!!!!!!

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sports/Redskins-Cutler-trade-42337677.html

Source: Cutler trade imminent
By John Keim
Examiner Staff Writer 4/3/09

According to an Examiner source, the Redskins are nearing completion of a trade that would bring Broncos QB Jay Cutler to Washington. Paul Spinelli/Getty Images The Redskins are close to completing a deal for Denver quarterback Jay Cutler, according to an NFL source.
The source, who told The Examiner of the Redskins’ interest in Cutler two weeks ago, was uncertain what Washington had to surrender in the deal and said it’s “going down as we speak.” The Redskins have shopped current starter quarterback Jason Campbell.

The source had said in a separate conversation about five minutes earlier that Washington appeared to be bumped from the favorite position in favor of another team, possibly Cleveland. However, after hanging up he quickly called back to say, “It changed.”

[BroncoFan]

BroncoFan - your choice of Anderson or Quinn plus Shaun Rogers for Cutler and #12. You buying?

Nope, if it's me I'm trying to get Cutler back, even if I do think he has behaved like a whiny assed version of Sybil.

[BroncoFan]

BroncoFan - your choice of Anderson or Quinn plus Shaun Rogers for Cutler and #12. You buying?

After reading their message boards, I would say they are almost divided 50-50. There is the faction that can't stand Cutler and his tissue crying ways, so they would love BQ/DA and Rogers. Then there is the faction that hates McD for lieing, so they want him ousted and JCut to be the man.

Yeah it's kind of interesting really, most people seem to be holding one side or the other to balme. I'll probably say the McD made the first stupid mistake but then Cutler acted like a 12 year old. After that they both seem to be trying to one up eachother for the stupid award. There are a few of us that think it's gone so far past he said she said that it's irrelevant at this point. Just fix it, one way or the other.

[BroncoFan]

Cutler says he doesn't really want to go and ESPN radio mentioned this afternoon that when the Bears called Denver yesterday Denver told them they were not yet ready to talk trade.

Kissing and making up doesn't seem all that impossible.

I think Cutler got his bluff called. Wouldn't suprise me if he was just angling for a new contract and used this as an excuse to pout so they would then try to make him happy. Why the hell would he want to leave Denver when he could be sent to a place like Detroit or Cleveland. He is going to continue to backpedal, I think he doesnt want out and all he wanted is a contract. Now he looks like a bitch and may end up playing for an 0-16 team.

Don't discount Bus Cook's role in this.

[ProgRocker]

Cutler says he doesn't really want to go and ESPN radio mentioned this afternoon that when the Bears called Denver yesterday Denver told them they were not yet ready to talk trade.

Kissing and making up doesn't seem all that impossible.

I think Cutler got his bluff called. Wouldn't suprise me if he was just angling for a new contract and used this as an excuse to pout so they would then try to make him happy. Why the hell would he want to leave Denver when he could be sent to a place like Detroit or Cleveland. He is going to continue to backpedal, I think he doesnt want out and all he wanted is a contract. Now he looks like a bitch and may end up playing for an 0-16 team.

Don't discount Bus Cook's role in this.

And supposedly Bus Cook has told Mangini that Cutler doesn't like Mangini and won't play for the Browns, either. (That's a radio report out of Chicago, by the way).

[BroncoFan]

Cutler says he doesn't really want to go and ESPN radio mentioned this afternoon that when the Bears called Denver yesterday Denver told them they were not yet ready to talk trade.

Kissing and making up doesn't seem all that impossible.

I think Cutler got his bluff called. Wouldn't suprise me if he was just angling for a new contract and used this as an excuse to pout so they would then try to make him happy. Why the hell would he want to leave Denver when he could be sent to a place like Detroit or Cleveland. He is going to continue to backpedal, I think he doesnt want out and all he wanted is a contract. Now he looks like a bitch and may end up playing for an 0-16 team.

Don't discount Bus Cook's role in this.

And supposedly Bus Cook has told Mangini that Cutler doesn't like Mangini and won't play for the Browns, either. (That's a radio report out of Chicago, by the way).

Brother, next thing you know Jay will be in the CFL and Doug Flutie will be our quarterback.

[Jennifer]

The Broncos announced Thursday that they had agreed to trade their disgruntled Pro Bowl passer to the Bears, who’ve gone through a bevy of quarterbacks without much success ever since Jim McMahon was calling plays in the 1980s.

The Broncos will get quarterback Kyle Orton in return, along with two first-round draft picks and a third-rounder.

The Broncos get the Bears’ top pick in this year’s draft, which is No. 18 overall, and Chicago’s first-round draft pick in 2010 along with a third-round selection this year (No. 84 overall). Denver also gave up a fifth-rounder this year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns

I can only shudder to think what Denver would have gotten if they had been in the "driver's seat."

[Bob Fergus]

Ok a couple of things here,

1. Jay has not been a head case on the field, he only became a head case through the media and 90% of the dolts writing are making up their stories as they go along. I don't think other than Jay, McD, Jay's apparently idiot agent Bus Cook, and Bowlen anyone really knows what has transpired. Heck with Bowlen's apparent memory loss I'm not sure even he knows. Remember Bus is the genius that managed Farve to the Jets last year and we saw how well that was handled in the press. Worked out fine for Bus $$$ but I don't think Brett ever wanted to be there. There is no doubt in my mind, however, that McD should have been on a plane to find Jay and talk to him in person. He is trying to bring a Patriots system and a Belichick mentality to Denver. The system may work, but he hasn't come close to earning Belichick respect yet so he should be doing more, IMHO, to fix this.

I'm putting most of the blame on Bowlen. He's the one who fired Shanny for the hot-shot young Josh McDaniels. So far its a disaster but instead of backing off, Bowlen dug his heels in and backed his inexperienced head coach and lost his franchise QB.

2. Denver is far from enamored with Quinn and I don't know why anyone would think Quinn is such a perfect fit for McDaniels system.

Evidentally the Broncos felt that way.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/04/report_cleveland_browns_offere.html

... The source said Denver's preferences for a quarterback were Quinn and then Chicago's Kyle Orton ...

3. There is still a chance, although small, that all of this will amount to nothing. Players and teams have a way of making up if the right circumstances occur. Players with lousy character get recycled through the league all the time against all odds. True it often ends up imploding sooner or later but Jay had no management issues prior to this. The next two weeks will be interesting.

This entire Jay Cutler is diablo is hyperboyle. Jay's talent isn't.

This is going to play out very badly for Denver and very well for Chicago. Denver, i.e, BOWLEN, fucked up bigtime.

[BroncoFan]

This is going to play out very badly for Denver and very well for Chicago. Denver, i.e, BOWLEN, fucked up bigtime.[/quote]

Maybe maybe not. We won't know until the season starts.

[yogi]

I can only shudder to think what Denver would have gotten if they had been in the "driver's seat."

Well, here's what I originally wrote...

Denver ain't demanding shit. They are NOT in the driver's seat.

But they can let the demand for Cutler drive up his price. Enter Washington. Snyder will want him. They do have a better than ok young QB they could trade along with a D player and picks. Thats where I see Cutler going. To an NFC team.
One thing has changed in the last couple of days...

.

If Washington was not involved, Denver would not have gotten this windfall. And they would have had to accept much less. HAD to accept.

We could do this all day, but you'd still be wrong if you still think Denver was in the driver's seat. They stepped in shit. Cause Sydie-boy upped the price. The market for anything includes Snyder or Steinbrenner, its a good day for the seller.

[JCoz]

The Broncos announced Thursday that they had agreed to trade their disgruntled Pro Bowl passer to the Bears, who’ve gone through a bevy of quarterbacks without much success ever since Jim McMahon was calling plays in the 1980s.

The Broncos will get quarterback Kyle Orton in return, along with two first-round draft picks and a third-rounder.

The Broncos get the Bears’ top pick in this year’s draft, which is No. 18 overall, and Chicago’s first-round draft pick in 2010 along with a third-round selection this year (No. 84 overall). Denver also gave up a fifth-rounder this year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns

I can only shudder to think what Denver would have gotten if they had been in the "driver's seat."

I think Yogi was absolutely right, without washington driving the price up, they don't get what they recieved yesterday.

I think you are clearly underestimating the Snyder factor, which is, IMO what drove the price up.

[stonepm]

Thank goodness this is over! Maybe now we can move on to discussing more important things like the carpet color in Mangini's office.

[jb]

This is going to play out very badly for Denver and very well for Chicago. Denver, i.e, BOWLEN, fucked up bigtime.

Maybe maybe not. We won't know until the season starts.[/quote]


Bowlen f'd up when he drank the BB soopergenius kool aid and hired the unqualified 10 year old never played football on a meaningful level wannabe HC .

This is a resulting detail.

[bw]

This is going to play out very badly for Denver and very well for Chicago. Denver, i.e, BOWLEN, fucked up bigtime.

Maybe maybe not. We won't know until the season starts.

Bowlen f'd up when he drank the BB soopergenius kool aid and hired the unqualified 10 year old never played football on a meaningful level wannabe HC .

This is a resulting detail.

If I'm reading this correctly (I usually do), Bowlen got tired of Shanahan's irrational avoidance of the defensive side of the football while loading up in the offensive side. The fans got tired of conversations like, "Gee wasn't that an exciting game?" Response, "No, we lost. We lost four in a row to miss the playoffs because our defense just simply sucks. We couldn't beat anybody except for the hapless Browns who couldn't stop our fourth-string backup fullback."

Once Shanahan was fired, it became clear the Offense was no longer going to be featured at the expense of the defense. I'm not really all that sure that McDaniels didn't outsmart everybody. I don't believe he wanted a 'me-first' QB who wanted to be in the limelight and on the ESPN high-light reels at the expense of the team winning football games. I'm not sure that Mickey-D didn't actually WANT Cutler gone.

Look what he got in return? Highway robbery if you ask me.

I think Mac, et al, are going to do what we've failed to do since "The Return." Build the team from the inside out, Belichick style. I don't see them trading away draft picks in a panic move to acquire a 'franchise' QB. Mac & Bowlen understand they're two years away from fielding a team capable of winning the Soopie Bowl. And that's Bowlen's goal. He doesn't want to field a competitive team, he wants to win the Souper Bowl. Every year.

I think the Donks are willing to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. A good draft this year on defense, a good draft next year (they got Chi's firstie next year, too) and they're ready to rock & roll.

Meanwhile, I understand there's a kick ass Rugby player in New Zealand that we might be able to convert to a 3-4 OLB. The Browns might take him at 5.

[Jennifer]

The Broncos announced Thursday that they had agreed to trade their disgruntled Pro Bowl passer to the Bears, who’ve gone through a bevy of quarterbacks without much success ever since Jim McMahon was calling plays in the 1980s.

The Broncos will get quarterback Kyle Orton in return, along with two first-round draft picks and a third-rounder.

The Broncos get the Bears’ top pick in this year’s draft, which is No. 18 overall, and Chicago’s first-round draft pick in 2010 along with a third-round selection this year (No. 84 overall). Denver also gave up a fifth-rounder this year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns

I can only shudder to think what Denver would have gotten if they had been in the "driver's seat."

I think Yogi was absolutely right, without washington driving the price up, they don't get what they recieved yesterday.

I think you are clearly underestimating the Snyder factor, which is, IMO what drove the price up.

No, I think both you and Yogi misunderstood my sarcasm. My point was that they obviously were in the driver's seat.

Did they get more than they might otherwise have gotten if Snyder wasn't interested? Quite possibly but what relevance does that have to my original point that Denever was indeed in the driver's seat.

Denever when it announced it was going to trade Cutler knew multiple teams (including Washington) would be in the picture. They offered an opening minimum bid one that if that is all they had gotten was a pretty good deal for him.

I really just don't get why you and Yogi don't understand that when multiple bidders have a serious interest in a player the player's team is going to receive reasonable value and not a "fire sale" price.

I further don't understand why after I outlined why Denver would receive value, even suggesting it was possible they might get excessive value, and it actually happened as I said it would you guys still want to argue about.

Really all I offered was Negotiation 101 principles; simple basically understand negotiation principles not some outlandish radical theory.

[yogi]

No, I think both you and Yogi misunderstood my sarcasm. My point was that they obviously were in the driver's seat.

Did they get more than they might otherwise have gotten if Snyder wasn't interested? Quite possibly but what relevance does that have to my original point that Denever was indeed in the driver's seat.

Denever when it announced it was going to trade Cutler knew multiple teams (including Washington) would be in the picture. They offered an opening minimum bid one that if that is all they had gotten was a pretty good deal for him.

I really just don't get why you and Yogi don't understand that when multiple bidders have a serious interest in a player the player's team is going to receive reasonable value and not a "fire sale" price.

I further don't understand why after I outlined why Denver would receive value, even suggesting it was possible they might get excessive value, and it actually happened as I said it would you guys still want to argue about.

Really all I offered was Negotiation 101 principles; simple basically understand negotiation principles not some outlandish radical theory.

oye. Let's just drop this.

We can't get to Negotiation 101 principles until english is fully understood and comprehended.

[Jennifer]

No, I think both you and Yogi misunderstood my sarcasm. My point was that they obviously were in the driver's seat.

Did they get more than they might otherwise have gotten if Snyder wasn't interested? Quite possibly but what relevance does that have to my original point that Denever was indeed in the driver's seat.

Denever when it announced it was going to trade Cutler knew multiple teams (including Washington) would be in the picture. They offered an opening minimum bid one that if that is all they had gotten was a pretty good deal for him.

I really just don't get why you and Yogi don't understand that when multiple bidders have a serious interest in a player the player's team is going to receive reasonable value and not a "fire sale" price.

I further don't understand why after I outlined why Denver would receive value, even suggesting it was possible they might get excessive value, and it actually happened as I said it would you guys still want to argue about.

Really all I offered was Negotiation 101 principles; simple basically understand negotiation principles not some outlandish radical theory.

oye. Let's just drop this.

We can't get to Negotiation 101 principles until english is fully understood and comprehended.

The old condecending ploy to avoid admitting you were clueless.

K, I'll play. We can continue this discussion this summer after you've finished the 10th grade.

[yogi]

The old condecending ploy to avoid admitting you were clueless.

K, I'll play. We can continue this discussion this summer after you've finished the 10th grade.

I'll ignore the 2nd set of insults you've sent my way.

driver's seat 
–noun 1. the seat from which a vehicle is operated.
2. a position of power, dominance, control, or superiority: After the election the Democrats were back in the driver's seat.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1920–25 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/driver's%20seat

Once the Broncos declared things could not be worked out with Cutler and they were fielding offers to trade him, they no longer had power, dominance, control or superiority of the situation. They no longer had the option of pulling away from the trade table and say they will not trade Cutler. They had to take the best offer out there.

Thats's it. Definition of the term and applied to the situation the Broncs put themselves in.

Was Cutler a hot commodity? Evidently yes. And they were lucky Snyder was involved to inflate the price. But my point is that had the best offer been much, much less, they still would have had to accept.

[Bob Fergus]

This is going to play out very badly for Denver and very well for Chicago. Denver, i.e, BOWLEN, fucked up bigtime.

Maybe maybe not. We won't know until the season starts.

Bowlen f'd up when he drank the BB soopergenius kool aid and hired the unqualified 10 year old never played football on a meaningful level wannabe HC .

This is a resulting detail.

If I'm reading this correctly (I usually do), Bowlen got tired of Shanahan's irrational avoidance of the defensive side of the football while loading up in the offensive side. The fans got tired of conversations like, "Gee wasn't that an exciting game?" Response, "No, we lost. We lost four in a row to miss the playoffs because our defense just simply sucks. We couldn't beat anybody except for the hapless Browns who couldn't stop our fourth-string backup fullback."

The Denver defense sucked big time but the reaction isn't to ditch a HOF coach and a young franchise QB in his prime. That is assinine no matter if that is what was going thru Bowlen's head but you're wrong on what triggered the move to get rid of Shannahan.

Pat Bowlen said he wasn't happy about the path the team was headed but then made a telling comment. He said his time was running out and he didn't want to be in a "pine box" before his team won another Super Bowl.

Excuse me?

The Super Bowl champion revovles around Pat Bowlen's mortality so he can force a HOF head coach out the door for a 32 yr old punk and cut ties with his franchise QB because his mortality clock is ticking?

WTF, the guy is an idiot if he thinks getting rid of Shanny and Cutler is the fast track to a SB championship. He's out of his fucking gord.

Here is reaction from former Broncos.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx? ... ovider=top

... A famous former Bronco sided with Cutler and against McDaniels and the team.

"This is sad. This was handled wrong all the way around. Jay, maybe he overreacted, maybe he did overreact, but in order for you to come in and when your team, your team is the 30th ranked defense in football, the 30th ranked defense, you have the number two ranked offense in football, and the first thing you do is say, 'You know what, I want to make my football team better, I want to get rid of the quarterback," former Broncos tight end Shannon Sharpe said on 850 KOA on Thursday afternoon. "I love Mr. Bowlen because he's always been fair to me, but they lied to the kid."

"Would you in the possibility of thinking about trading a franchise player, you automatically talk to the owner. I don't care how much power you have as a head coach or general manager, when you're dealing with a franchise player, and this is what this kid is, a franchise player, you must run it by the owner first. And so for them to say Pat had no knowledge of this, we were just in the early stages, is a flat out lie," Sharpe said.

That is what happened. Bowlen went off the cliff when he fired Shanny AND his entire coaching staff and let the kid run the franchise QB out of town.

Once Shanahan was fired, it became clear the Offense was no longer going to be featured at the expense of the defense. I'm not really all that sure that McDaniels didn't outsmart everybody. I don't believe he wanted a 'me-first' QB who wanted to be in the limelight and on the ESPN high-light reels at the expense of the team winning football games. I'm not sure that Mickey-D didn't actually WANT Cutler gone.

Do you actually think the Broncos need YOU to point out that their defense sucked and that something had to be done to fix it? This isn't a case of YOU being omnipitent and telling all of us morons that the Denver defense sucked and all they had to do was to get rid of Shanny and the young franchise QB in his prime and walla presto chango the defense will suddenly become an impact D and they won't miss a HOF HC or franchise QB.

This isn't a case of taking one step back and two steps forward, its a case of taking one huge step back off a cliff into a firey burning pit of hell for Denver.

Pat Bowlen will be tits up by the time the Broncos win their next SB if they ever do.

Look what he got in return? Highway robbery if you ask me.

You're outta of yer fucking mind old man.

Kyle fucking Orton for Jay Cutler. They lose big time in that trade off.

The 18th pick in this draft won't come close to the impact that they lose from a proven commodity like Cut so they lose bigtime in that trade off. Same with the late third round pick.

So they have to wait a year to get that next first rounder and in the meantime Cutler will give da Bears at least one more victory on their 08 9-7 record to bump thier first rounder next year into the twenties and those late first round picks hit on less than half in terms of working out let alone making an IMPACT. Hell the entire deal hinges not only on how much of an impact, if any, the 18th pick makes, but on how quickly the 18th pick makes an impact and more than likely they are looking at a 34 DE with that pick and those guys make very little impact over their careers if they work out.

I think Mac, et al, are going to do what we've failed to do since "The Return." Build the team from the inside out, Belichick style. I don't see them trading away draft picks in a panic move to acquire a 'franchise' QB. Mac & Bowlen understand they're two years away from fielding a team capable of winning the Soopie Bowl. And that's Bowlen's goal. He doesn't want to field a competitive team, he wants to win the Souper Bowl. Every year.

That isn't in Bowlen's time line BW. Not even close. If that is what they are attempting then he won't last and the fans want his head. He doesn't have the time to be patient, the Denver fans won't have it especially if Cutler has more success with the da Bears and he will.

I think the Donks are willing to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. A good draft this year on defense, a good draft next year (they got Chi's firstie next year, too) and they're ready to rock & roll.

You're wrong. They aren't 'willing' to take a step back. They HAVE to take a step back but you are wrong. They, i.e., Pat Bowlen isn't 'willing' to take a step back. Bowlen is the asshole in this sordid affair. He's the one who had an estrogen attack and forced Shanny out the door. He's the one who lied to Cutler about keeping the offensive coaching staff in place. He's the one who lied about McDaniels not talking to him about a trade and then he threw him under the bus and then lied about lying.

Meanwhile, I understand there's a kick ass Rugby player in New Zealand that we might be able to convert to a 3-4 OLB. The Browns might take him at 5.

Oh yeah, more of the apathetic Cleveland sucks takes so we shouldn't care about a team who you feel has the master plan.

Denver/Pat Bowlen fucked up big time. Who would ever think that we would see the day when a rich guy got soo full of himself that his ego drove him to make piss poor decisions?

[Triple-S]

Why are people still talking about this?

It's dead, thank god it didn't happen, Jay Cutler is Chi-town's Punky QB pt. 2.

We're not trading Quinn, we could be trading down though if the Donkos want Dirty Sanchez.

Peace.

[Jennifer]

The old condecending ploy to avoid admitting you were clueless.

K, I'll play. We can continue this discussion this summer after you've finished the 10th grade.

I'll ignore the 2nd set of insults you've sent my way.

driver's seat 
–noun 1. the seat from which a vehicle is operated.
2. a position of power, dominance, control, or superiority: After the election the Democrats were back in the driver's seat.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1920–25 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/driver's%20seat

Once the Broncos declared things could not be worked out with Cutler and they were fielding offers to trade him, they no longer had power, dominance, control or superiority of the situation. They no longer had the option of pulling away from the trade table and say they will not trade Cutler. They had to take the best offer out there.

Thats's it. Definition of the term and applied to the situation the Broncs put themselves in.

Was Cutler a hot commodity? Evidently yes. And they were lucky Snyder was involved to inflate the price. But my point is that had the best offer been much, much less, they still would have had to accept.

Pretty good. A definition and a conclusory statement incorporating the definition.

Now how about trying to respond to the point I made earlier about why even if Washington was not in the picture with multiple teams interested in Cutler Denver would not have still gotten reasonable value.

I apologize if my tone is bothering you but I'm extremely frustrated. I think you originally blurted something out without thinking it through and you now just being stubborn. You seem to be much too intelligent not to recognize you are wrong.

[jb]

bump.