Shaffer gets the boot

[el67ko]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/ ... t-shaffer/

Looks like the house is being cleaned. It will be hard to argue against this one though.

[Doc]

Sorry. I'm kinda happy.

[dpdad]

No great loss here. Shaffer can be replaced.

[noles1]

Good move. Save some money and allow the Browns to bring in someone that actually is worth what they are paid.

[waborat]

I guess they can always put one of the many TEs on the line..

or, should I say it? josh cribbs?

[Erie Warrior]

Fine.... I'll ask it. Even if Shaffer is less than good, with whom will he be replaced? A rookie? A scrap heap Jet?

[Crash Davis]

Crash Davis wrote:
My perspective on these releases is that Kevin Shaffer is next. While I wish it would be Danty first Shaffer is either restructuring or he's outta here too.

We debated this earlier in another forum and I can say that I am glad my prediction came to fruition.

[el67ko]

Fine.... I'll ask it. Even if Shaffer is less than good, with whom will he be replaced? A rookie? A scrap heap Jet?

Could be tipping the scales towards drafting a tackle very early. Wouldn't be surprising at #5 since there seems to be no other consensus pick worthy of that slot.

[noles1]

Fine.... I'll ask it. Even if Shaffer is less than good, with whom will he be replaced? A rookie? A scrap heap Jet?

If the Browns aren't impressed with Orakpo OR he performs so wel that Seattle gets interested then you have to wonder if, by means of value, they aren't beginning to consider OT at #5.

[jfiling]

About time. Shaffer was a weak-side tackle getting paid LT money because he was the LT for lefty Vick. I said all along he was a RT, but he never deserved the contract that Rotoworld said he got:

LT Kevin Shaffer's contract is worth $36 million over seven years, including $12.5 million in guarantees.
It's similar to Jonas Jennings' contract last year with the 49ers. The value of the first three years of Shaffer's deal is $17.5 million. That's pretty much the going rate for an average left tackle.

Sure, that's great for an "average left tackle" if he's protecting a left-handed QB. Never happened here, though.

[Guest]

Fine.... I'll ask it. Even if Shaffer is less than good, with whom will he be replaced? A rookie? A scrap heap Jet?

Ryan Tucker? A draft pick? A Free Agent?

Maybe you should let the process play out? Just a suggestion.

[jfiling]

BTW, no idea who this blogger is, but:

http://www.nologoneeded.com/no_logo_nee ... m-fat.html

It may not be over. Shaffer, who was due a $1 million roster bonus on Friday, is contemplating accepting a restructured offer from the Browns.

[Erie Warrior]

Fine.... I'll ask it. Even if Shaffer is less than good, with whom will he be replaced? A rookie? A scrap heap Jet?

Ryan Tucker? A draft pick? A Free Agent?

Maybe you should let the process play out? Just a suggestion.

Or maybe the fire sale is an awful idea. There were too many holes on this team before they started to move starters. We all know how this story ends, it doesn't need to play out.

[JCoz]

Fine.... I'll ask it. Even if Shaffer is less than good, with whom will he be replaced? A rookie? A scrap heap Jet?

Ryan Tucker? A draft pick? A Free Agent?

Maybe you should let the process play out? Just a suggestion.

Or maybe the fire sale is an awful idea. There were too many holes on this team before they started to move starters. We all know how this story ends, it doesn't need to play out.

So is your theory that ManKok is just winging this thing....driving at night without headlights?

[pup]

Fine.... I'll ask it. Even if Shaffer is less than good, with whom will he be replaced? A rookie? A scrap heap Jet?

Ryan Tucker? A draft pick? A Free Agent?

Maybe you should let the process play out? Just a suggestion.

Or maybe the fire sale is an awful idea. There were too many holes on this team before they started to move starters. We all know how this story ends, it doesn't need to play out.

Dude. Cat sucked. I can probably check the archives and find a post with you begging for this cat to be sent packing.

Shitty starters are not irreplaceable. Ever.

[ilasch]

Fine.... I'll ask it. Even if Shaffer is less than good, with whom will he be replaced? A rookie? A scrap heap Jet?

Ryan Tucker? A draft pick? A Free Agent?

Maybe you should let the process play out? Just a suggestion.

Or maybe the fire sale is an awful idea. There were too many holes on this team before they started to move starters. We all know how this story ends, it doesn't need to play out.

How does cutting the only living wide receiver without knees and a grossly overpaid RT, along with trading a malcontent tight end for valuable draft picks constitute a fire sale? If there's a fire analogy to be found, isn't this more like a controlled burn?

[Erie Warrior]

Really at this point, what else could it be? They have signed players who can't start on any other NFL team. They have released players who they have no replacements for. They have not addressed the preexisting holes. And we're expected to believe there is a plan. What, to gain as many draft picks as possible and hope the picks will develop into NFL players? To free up cap space for a high priced free agent? If that isn't driving without headlights, what is? I can win with Quinn? You better be able to, because you have no one left. Even if you look at the moves through an objective lens, you have to ask who will replace these guys? How much will it cost to replace them, and for what gain? Is Goldberg that much better than Shaffer (if he's signed)? Who's Quinn gonna throw to? Really, who's he going to hand off too? I was under the impression Mangini was hired to win now, that he wasn't going to start over. Now, I don't know what to think. Everyone keeps saying the fans are full of shit, they don't know football, they're simpletons. I say fuck those guys. I know a tank job when I see one. I know that placing all your eggs in the draft basket has worked wonders in the past, and this draft isn't very strong. And I know I'm falling farther down the rabbit hole. If you're glass is half full, then pin a rose on your nose. My glass has been filled with excrement, and I've been drinking out of it too long to think it's chocolate milk.

[JCoz]

Fine.... I'll ask it. Even if Shaffer is less than good, with whom will he be replaced? A rookie? A scrap heap Jet?

Ryan Tucker? A draft pick? A Free Agent?

Maybe you should let the process play out? Just a suggestion.

Or maybe the fire sale is an awful idea. There were too many holes on this team before they started to move starters. We all know how this story ends, it doesn't need to play out.

How does cutting the only living wide receiver without knees and a grossly overpaid RT, along with trading a malcontent tight end for valuable draft picks constitute a fire sale? If there's a fire analogy to be found, isn't this more like a controlled burn?

Freeze-burning warts, IMO. LOL.

[Erie Warrior]

Dude. Cat sucked. I can probably check the archives and find a post with you begging for this cat to be sent packing.

Shitty starters are not irreplaceable. Ever.

I know. That's my point. He was average to below average, and he started. So who's his replacement. Obviously they can't promote from within, which leaves FA or the draft. They probably won't spend big money, so we are talking rookie. For every JT, there is a Robert Gallery. So who do the Browns pick? Do they take several and play the law of averages? Valuable draft picks? They only have value if the players chosen turn into what they are projected to. Buff said abundance is good only if it is goodness that is abundant. 2nd round draft picks do not abound with goodness.

[pup]

First of all. This draft is rated very highly. Just not at the top. The depth, especially for offensive line, is outstanding.

Second. Who have they lost? A bunch of guys who have contributed to shit. Replacement? For Kevin Fucking Shafer? How about me? JB? SD? The guy was a turnstile. Not to mention a big ole pussy. You can find a Kevin Shafer in ANY round of this draft.

I ain't trying to tell you I know these guys are right. But I sure as fuck ain't going to agree they are wrong. They have lost one decent player through this "purge". Maybe 2 if you count Sean Jones. It ain't like they have to replace All-Pro because they want to win with other guys. They are replacing STIFFS. MUD. CRAP.

Please tell me all of the draft picks Eric Mangini and George Kokinis have missed on. Please tell me ho you know they cannot possibly build this team the way EVERY good team in the NFL builds, through the draft. We crow about how well the Steelers draft. How nice it is for them to have replacement players in the pipeline. How nice it is to not HAVE to overspend in FA. Now you have people in place that want to do that, and you know they are wrong. Good for you. But why? Because Randy Lerner hired them? Fuck that.

[4thQtrGlory]

First of all. This draft is rated very highly. Just not at the top. The depth, especially for offensive line, is outstanding.

Second. Who have they lost? A bunch of guys who have contributed to shit. Replacement? For Kevin Fucking Shafer? How about me? JB? SD? The guy was a turnstile. Not to mention a big ole pussy. You can find a Kevin Shafer in ANY round of this draft.

I ain't trying to tell you I know these guys are right. But I sure as fuck ain't going to agree they are wrong. They have lost one decent player through this "purge". Maybe 2 if you count Sean Jones. It ain't like they have to replace All-Pro because they want to win with other guys. They are replacing STIFFS. MUD. CRAP.

Please tell me all of the draft picks Eric Mangini and George Kokinis have missed on. Please tell me ho you know they cannot possibly build this team the way EVERY good team in the NFL builds, through the draft. We crow about how well the Steelers draft. How nice it is for them to have replacement players in the pipeline. How nice it is to not HAVE to overspend in FA. Now you have people in place that want to do that, and you know they are wrong. Good for you. But why? Because Randy Lerner hired them? Fuck that.

100% Agree. Dont blame ManKok for ridding of the waste on this team. They are doing what Savage and Crennel didnt have the balls to do. Instead of building a team properly and having homegrown talent, they tried to buy their way to the top, and put band aids on the rest when we ran out of money. For god sakes, nothing else has worked in 10 years....lets try it the ManKok way.

[JCoz]

Dude. Cat sucked. I can probably check the archives and find a post with you begging for this cat to be sent packing.

Shitty starters are not irreplaceable. Ever.

I know. That's my point. He was average to below average, and he started. So who's his replacement. Obviously they can't promote from within, which leaves FA or the draft. They probably won't spend big money, so we are talking rookie. For every JT, there is a Robert Gallery. So who do the Browns pick? Do they take several and play the law of averages? Valuable draft picks? They only have value if the players chosen turn into what they are projected to. Buff said abundance is good only if it is goodness that is abundant. 2nd round draft picks do not abound with goodness.

I think gallery is doing Ok at Guard now, but I get your point, insert, Ferguson or Mandarich.

If I were the browns management I would be trying to get as many picks from rds 1-3 for this year. Also I think 2nd round picks offer quite a bit more than you are letting on. Just go back and look at past drafts.

[JCoz]

First of all. This draft is rated very highly. Just not at the top. The depth, especially for offensive line, is outstanding.

Second. Who have they lost? A bunch of guys who have contributed to shit. Replacement? For Kevin Fucking Shafer? How about me? JB? SD? The guy was a turnstile. Not to mention a big ole pussy. You can find a Kevin Shafer in ANY round of this draft.

I ain't trying to tell you I know these guys are right. But I sure as fuck ain't going to agree they are wrong. They have lost one decent player through this "purge". Maybe 2 if you count Sean Jones. It ain't like they have to replace All-Pro because they want to win with other guys. They are replacing STIFFS. MUD. CRAP.

Please tell me all of the draft picks Eric Mangini and George Kokinis have missed on. Please tell me ho you know they cannot possibly build this team the way EVERY good team in the NFL builds, through the draft. We crow about how well the Steelers draft. How nice it is for them to have replacement players in the pipeline. How nice it is to not HAVE to overspend in FA. Now you have people in place that want to do that, and you know they are wrong. Good for you. But why? Because Randy Lerner hired them? Fuck that.

Agreed 100%. This draft is SOLID for the first 3 if you ask me.

[pup]

Dude. Cat sucked. I can probably check the archives and find a post with you begging for this cat to be sent packing.

Shitty starters are not irreplaceable. Ever.

I know. That's my point. He was average to below average, and he started. So who's his replacement. Obviously they can't promote from within, which leaves FA or the draft. They probably won't spend big money, so we are talking rookie. For every JT, there is a Robert Gallery. So who do the Browns pick? Do they take several and play the law of averages? Valuable draft picks? They only have value if the players chosen turn into what they are projected to. Buff said abundance is good only if it is goodness that is abundant. 2nd round draft picks do not abound with goodness.

OK. Lets jump on the crazy train for a few minutes.

K2 - Replaced by Heiden and Royal. Better blocking combo. Lose a little in pass catching.
Andrea Davis - Replaced by anybody is an upgrade. Let's say they get Curry and play him inside.
Sean Jones - Replaced by Elam. Don't know much about the guy, but replacing Jones is not replacing Steve Atwater. And I like Sean Jones.
Joe J - Replaced by doesn't matter, cuz he wasn't playing.
Shafer - Let's say they replace him with O-Pace. Just for shits and giggles

Jamall - Harrison plus a draft pick.

So, we steal Curry at #5. And O-Pace want to play at home. I say we are about even talent wise. Not the goal, I agree, but hardly a fire sale. Now, with #37, we take Alex Mack at Center. Improved o-line. And at #50, we get Lesean McCoy.

The signings of Bowens, Barton and such improve the depth of the football team. So, now we are even at "replacing" the released players. We have upgraded the depth. We have improved the offensive line and running game. With additional picks to improve depth more.

Call me an optimist. Mention my Brown colored glasses. Don't care. When you are 4-12, 10-6, 4-12 there are no sacred cows. When you cut bad players, they are easily replaceable. And improved upon.

[Erie Warrior]

OK. Lets jump on the crazy train for a few minutes.

K2 - Replaced by Heiden and Royal. Better blocking combo. Lose a little in pass catching.
Andrea Davis - Replaced by anybody is an upgrade. Let's say they get Curry and play him inside.
Sean Jones - Replaced by Elam. Don't know much about the guy, but replacing Jones is not replacing Steve Atwater. And I like Sean Jones.
Joe J - Replaced by doesn't matter, cuz he wasn't playing.
Shafer - Let's say they replace him with O-Pace. Just for shits and giggles

Jamall - Harrison plus a draft pick.

So, we steal Curry at #5. And O-Pace want to play at home. I say we are about even talent wise. Not the goal, I agree, but hardly a fire sale. Now, with #37, we take Alex Mack at Center. Improved o-line. And at #50, we get Lesean McCoy.

TE- the Browns lost more than a little pass catching. Better blocking, but Heiden is a broke dick and Royal doesn't exactly require a specific defensive game plan. 3&6, who do you want to throw to for the first down?

S- Elam is ok, but not better than Jones, even a half-ass Jones. If Jones doesn't want to be in Cleveland, then I'm fine with letting him walk, but if he had any interest in staying, he's better than the other FAs.

Shafer- not very good, but Pace will probably require more money, for not much better production.

RB- 8-ball and Harrison won't cut it. One's too slow, the other's not an every down back.

So now we're relying on draft picks. We think Curry, Mack and McCoy will be better, but no one knows. If one of those 3 picks fizzles, then the Browns still need 1 of LB, OL, RB plus the LB, CB, WR and DL they were missing last season. How many draft picks do you think will BE bring in?

[pup]

Just so I have this. In your opinion, the Cleveland Browns were in good enough position that had they kept all their own, signed a couple of free agents and voila, 13 wins? And be built for the long haul?

If you don't want to give them 1 off season to improve depth and a second to improve the starters, then i don't know what to tell ya.

Are you promising K2 is healthy enough to play so he can catch that 3rd and 6?

[Guest]

I now see the light. Kevin Shaffer was the last straw. Mangini & Kokinis are trying to lose ON PURPOSE. Bastards!

Damn, was I hoodwinked.

[DrPoove]

There is a reason I have been calling Kevin Shaffer the Human Parking Cone for years. Because, in fact, if you put a parking cone at RT (or LT in the Charlie Frye years) it could do just as good of a job as Mr. Shaffer.

That being said, I will miss my HPC jokes.

Also, if he does restructure for less $ I will not be upset either. They obviously think he has some (be it little) value if they want him to restructure. In what capacity, who knows, but if it is for depth or a stop gap at the right price I won't complain.

Erie W. I hear/feel your angst. If this organization would actually tell people what their plan is maybe we could make sense of some of these signings/trades/releases that have occured. But they haven't and probably won't.

All the secrecy is BS, just like the way they handled the JJ release. Right move, poor execution (no pun intended).

I've said it in other threads, I really didn't expect much for 2009 no matter who took over. I know there are others that were more optimistic and that's cool. But I am not going to criticize Mangini and Kokinis until the free agency period is over, the draft unfolds and camp starts.

I will call them to task on their lack of "personability" however. That stuff does mean something no matter what they think.

[DrPoove]

I now see the light. Kevin Shaffer was the last straw. Mangini & Kokinis are trying to lose ON PURPOSE. Bastards!

Damn, was I hoodwinked.

Where did "Hiko, Voice of Reason" go?

PS I want royalties if that tagline ever catches fire.

[Guest]

I now see the light. Kevin Shaffer was the last straw. Mangini & Kokinis are trying to lose ON PURPOSE. Bastards!

Damn, was I hoodwinked.

Where did "Hiko, Voice of Reason" go?

PS I want royalties if that tagline ever catches fire.

Someone offered me a case for that title. I'll take beer over titles anyday.

After a case in an hour and a half, I've decided my current tacticts aren't working. I'm now going to unleash:

THE VOICE OF DISREASON!

Oooo... actually, no, that doesn't work so well. Let's try:

THE VOICE OF UNREASON... ABILITY... no, that sucks too.

Anyway, I'm unleashing a new voice. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em and make fun of 'em behind their back.

[JuanBond68]

This is good move…Tucker is servicable for a year at either guard or tackle. I think Fraley is a good guy, but he he can’t match up against the noseguards in our division. Hadnot can play both guard and center, and is a better matchup against Hampton and Ngata if we need him to play center. I am hoping that Mack kid from Cal falls to us in the 2nd round. I would prefer going into next year with an o-line of Thomas, Steinbach, Mack, Hadnot, and Tucker with the hope that we sign Goodman to replace McKinney to provide some competition/versitility.

[noles1]

There's ole JuanBond...

Bout time you got back on here.

Knew you couldn't keep away from your Browns fix.

[Hydra Melee]

I just want to ask why we released Mr. Shaffer?

Yes, I will concede that he's not very good. But what does the move accomplish? The guy has not been causing any problems (publicly, at least) and while he may save us some money it's not exactly like we're spending enough to need it.

So... why did we get rid of a starter?

[pup]

I just want to ask why we released Mr. Shaffer?

Yes, I will concede that he's not very good. But what does the move accomplish? The guy has not been causing any problems (publicly, at least) and while he may save us some money it's not exactly like we're spending enough to need it.

So... why did we get rid of a starter?

Because he stinks.

And he was due a roster bonus today. Since they had not agreed to a new deal, they released him. I believe they are still talking about a new deal. So basically, nothing has changed. They are trying to restructure his contract without paying his bonus. So he can be a shitty right tackle, for less money.

[noles1]

Plus he sucks.

And he wanted to be traded or released when he got moved from LT.

Lastly, he's brutal.

[Stu]

If you don't want to give them 1 off season to improve depth and a second to improve the starters, then i don't know what to tell ya.

we've given them nearly 10 off seasons to do that. thats the problem. people are just fed up with it.

[js2310]

Dude. Cat sucked. I can probably check the archives and find a post with you begging for this cat to be sent packing.

Shitty starters are not irreplaceable. Ever.

I know. That's my point. He was average to below average, and he started. So who's his replacement. Obviously they can't promote from within, which leaves FA or the draft. They probably won't spend big money, so we are talking rookie. For every JT, there is a Robert Gallery. So who do the Browns pick? Do they take several and play the law of averages? Valuable draft picks? They only have value if the players chosen turn into what they are projected to. Buff said abundance is good only if it is goodness that is abundant. 2nd round draft picks do not abound with goodness.

OK. Lets jump on the crazy train for a few minutes.

K2 - Replaced by Heiden and Royal. Better blocking combo. Lose a little in pass catching.
Andrea Davis - Replaced by anybody is an upgrade. Let's say they get Curry and play him inside.
Sean Jones - Replaced by Elam. Don't know much about the guy, but replacing Jones is not replacing Steve Atwater. And I like Sean Jones.
Joe J - Replaced by doesn't matter, cuz he wasn't playing.
Shafer - Let's say they replace him with O-Pace. Just for shits and giggles

Jamall - Harrison plus a draft pick.

So, we steal Curry at #5. And O-Pace want to play at home. I say we are about even talent wise. Not the goal, I agree, but hardly a fire sale. Now, with #37, we take Alex Mack at Center. Improved o-line. And at #50, we get Lesean McCoy.

The signings of Bowens, Barton and such improve the depth of the football team. So, now we are even at "replacing" the released players. We have upgraded the depth. We have improved the offensive line and running game. With additional picks to improve depth more.

Call me an optimist. Mention my Brown colored glasses. Don't care. When you are 4-12, 10-6, 4-12 there are no sacred cows. When you cut bad players, they are easily replaceable. And improved upon.

K2 - Replaced by Royal and Rucker. I do think Rucker will get a chance to play this year and will show off some how his pass catching talent. He can be our Dustin Keller. Probably not as good but similar.
Sean Jones - Replaced by Elam. I think the Jets might match. If they don't I'm ok with Elam as a starter for this year and we draft the best safety next year. I think Sean Jones was a bit overrated.
Joe J -I hope is replaced by someone with sure hands in the draft. Can we really trust Stallworth and Steptoe?
Shaffer -I'm hoping for Orlando Pace. If not we might draft a RT at #5.
Jamal Lewis -Will most likely start for us this year but Harrison will get more carries.

I'm hoping we sign a RT. I do not want to draft one top 5. I want to draft Orakpo or Curry. I do hope we sign Barton though which will finish the puzzle on defense.

If we could go

1. Orakpo- Pure OLB, will not start but would come in on passing down to add pressure. He'll need a year to learn coverages.
2a. Alex Mack- Starting Center
2b. Hakeem Nicks or Percy Harvin- #2 wide out. Stallworth is a slot guy.
4. Mike Mickens- Nickle or Dime Corner.Should beat out Poteat if healthy.
6. Glen Coffee- Another guy who can take the load off of Lewis.

[4thQtrGlory]

If we could go

1. Orakpo- Pure OLB, will not start but would come in on passing down to add pressure. He'll need a year to learn coverages.
2a. Alex Mack- Starting Center
2b. Hakeem Nicks or Percy Harvin- #2 wide out. Stallworth is a slot guy.
4. Mike Mickens- Nickle or Dime Corner.Should beat out Poteat if healthy.
6. Glen Coffee- Another guy who can take the load off of Lewis.

1. Ok, i could live with that if Curry is gone.
2a. wont be around (late first, early second)
2b. definitely wont be around (1st, possibly to Ravens)
4. wont be around (2nd or 3rd rounder)
6. would not make an impact, rather take a RB in the 2nd, and use late picks for the lines

[Erie Warrior]

Alright Gents, let me try this again. I'm not saying Shaffer, JJ, K2 and Jones will lead the Browns to the Super Bowl. I'm not even saying that their departure was necessarily bad. What I am saying is where do the Browns go from here. Why were these men not resigned/ kept on the roster. Why did they not fit? The rudderless part of "rudderless suck" has always been a big issue with me. Just about everyone agrees the Browns need an identity (tough D, smash mouth running, run n' gun) to build around. So my issue is, what's the plan. We've heard nothing. We have no idea. Don't tell me the draft will save this team. It may, but what would lead anyone to think that way? If you're a self deprecating Browns fan, history is not on our side. If you're on the ManKok bandwagon, Vernon Ghoulston (although his other picks have been pretty good, a total bust that early in the draft can kill a team). So someone tell me why I should be content with a team who has never drafted well, headed by a coach who has a huge hole in his draft resume. Include a few workout warrior types guys in this draft, and yes, I'm scared. People are saying this is a deep draft, but who the hell knows. I guess it comes down to are you willing to say the draft can save this team. I'm not. Until someone tells me what the hell is going on I'm going to assume the worst, assuming the best pains my soul too much.

[pup]

And you have every right to assume the worst. I cannot tell you that the worst is not coming.

The fact remains. If guys are not pulling their weight. Or earning the paycheck they were scheduled to receive. Then they need to be jettisoned. You are not losing anything, whomever you play at right tackle, because the guy just released was very bad. Why was he playing then? Because the last group that decided who played thought he was the best option. Of course, the last group didn't win a lot of football games.

I am not sure where this whole idea of the should be telling us the plan comes into play? Would you really feel better if they came out today and said, this is the plan. These are the guys we are targeting? What kind of sense does that make? Who would do that? Even if they said, we need a quick intelligent linebacker in the middle, without naming Curry, you don't think it would be pretty easy to determine? If they said we really want an edge rusher, that wouldn't compromise their ability to get an edge rusher? We really hope a center falls in our lap at #37. Don't you think someone else hoping that center is there at #40 would try to move ahead of us?

To use Gholston as your only example of "bad drafting". Well, how do you know Mangini wasn't 100% against it. It is not like a GM would ever take a guy despite what the coach thinks. And Kokinis had nothing to do with it.

I 'm not trying to tell anyone how to feel. I am not trying to tell anyone these guys are the new Belicheck/Pioli Dream Team.

I am just trying to figure out why it is you know they are so wrong. Why letting go of dead weight is a bad thing. You cannot "grade" them on what has been done thus far, because there is a lot of time before you need to name your 53. Take each move for what it is. Kevin Shafer stunk. So he has been released. If he comes back at less money, hopefully it is another depth signing, like the Jets crew that has come over. One of the biggest problems with the Browns has been a terrible lack of depth. Well, you fix that by signing depth type of players. Which is what they are doing.

They need to have a great draft. No question about it. Just do not see the evidence that they cannot.

[js2310]

If we could go

1. Orakpo- Pure OLB, will not start but would come in on passing down to add pressure. He'll need a year to learn coverages.
2a. Alex Mack- Starting Center
2b. Hakeem Nicks or Percy Harvin- #2 wide out. Stallworth is a slot guy.
4. Mike Mickens- Nickle or Dime Corner.Should beat out Poteat if healthy.
6. Glen Coffee- Another guy who can take the load off of Lewis.

1. Ok, i could live with that if Curry is gone.
2a. wont be around (late first, early second)
2b. definitely wont be around (1st, possibly to Ravens)
4. wont be around (2nd or 3rd rounder)
6. would not make an impact, rather take a RB in the 2nd, and use late picks for the lines

1. I'm like 99% sure Curry will go to Detroit or Kansas City. I could also see a team trade up for him also. I'm 50-50. 50% of me wants us to draft Crabtree, the other 50% wants Orakpo.

2. I've seen most mocks having him early 2nd. It is a possibility.

2b. Ravens want Heward-Bey. You are probably right though. I'd take a safety like William Moore or Patrick Chung then. Possible a running back like Rashad Jennings.

4. His stock has fallen because of his knee. He could drop on draft day. If not we could get his teammate DeAngelo Williams.

6. Yeah I have no idea. It is the sixth round. Does anyone really have an idea?

[The Voice of Disreason]

If you don't want to give them 1 off season to improve depth and a second to improve the starters, then i don't know what to tell ya.

we've given them nearly 10 off seasons to do that. thats the problem. people are just fed up with it.

Exactly. Everyone is counting on these stupid draft picks. What makes any of you think they can draft good when the Browns haven't drafted good for the last 10 years? I don't care if ManCock didn't make those drafts, they should know what they were getting into, if they didn't want to they shouldn't have signed the contract.

They sucked to begin with and now they got rid of all their good players and they replaced them with a bunch of Jets who suck.

I'm just sick of these stupid people.

[waborat]

If you don't want to give them 1 off season to improve depth and a second to improve the starters, then i don't know what to tell ya.

we've given them nearly 10 off seasons to do that. thats the problem. people are just fed up with it.

Exactly. Everyone is counting on these stupid draft picks. What makes any of you think they can draft good when the Browns haven't drafted good for the last 10 years? I don't care if ManCock didn't make those drafts, they should know what they were getting into, if they didn't want to they shouldn't have signed the contract.

They sucked to begin with and now they got rid of all their good players and they replaced them with a bunch of Jets who suck.

I'm just sick of these stupid people.

Classic!!!

Gonna need my VOD fix daily

[El Heffe]

Purely for my own curiousity, who did they get of rid that would be considered "good"? I'll tgive you K2, but seeing as how he'll be out of the league in three years I have no problem with trading him while they could still get a good return for him (to see the exact oppisite, please see Anderson, Derek 2008 off-season).

But seriously who that is gone was any good? Jones was mediocre at best, not worth losing sleep over, Schaffer was "the Human Parking Cone", and who else? Jurevicius wasn't playing this year. To have counted on him for any type of production is silly. What's been the biggest failing on this team since they came back (aside from coaching)? Lack of depth. They need to acquire draft picks and clear dead weight make room for the guys like CJ Mosely who can play for a game or two without a massive drop off in play. And, the more draft picks you get, the better the chance you'll hit on a few. It's better to go 5/8, 5/7 on picks than 3/6 or 4/8. Guys you get in the 4th or 5th round become solid starters or above average depth.

Cutting guys like Schaffer is the beginning of getting rid of dead weight. If Stallworth's cap number was ridiculous you can bet he'd be out by now too, and no one would cry.

[Erie Warrior]

I am not sure where this whole idea of the should be telling us the plan comes into play? Would you really feel better if they came out today and said, this is the plan. These are the guys we are targeting? What kind of sense does that make? Who would do that? Even if they said, we need a quick intelligent linebacker in the middle, without naming Curry, you don't think it would be pretty easy to determine? If they said we really want an edge rusher, that wouldn't compromise their ability to get an edge rusher? We really hope a center falls in our lap at #37. Don't you think someone else hoping that center is there at #40 would try to move ahead of us?

Because I'm a rube, and I want something to get behind. I want to see some kind of method to the madness. It's much more interesting, as a fan, to understand the what the team is trying to do, so I can read and research and watch for players to fit the system (I can't answer why, I just like it). It makes college football more fun, it makes the combine and draft bearable. It makes me want to drive to cleveland, pay for a hotel room, spend money at the local bars, spend $8 for a beer at the stadium, and cheer for a team I'm trying to identify with. I'm the customer, and I need some kind of buy-in. Right now, I don't have that. I moved away 4 years ago, and have been to at least one game every year since. They need to make me want to come back next year.

[DrPoove]

[pup]

I am not sure where this whole idea of the should be telling us the plan comes into play? Would you really feel better if they came out today and said, this is the plan. These are the guys we are targeting? What kind of sense does that make? Who would do that? Even if they said, we need a quick intelligent linebacker in the middle, without naming Curry, you don't think it would be pretty easy to determine? If they said we really want an edge rusher, that wouldn't compromise their ability to get an edge rusher? We really hope a center falls in our lap at #37. Don't you think someone else hoping that center is there at #40 would try to move ahead of us?

Because I'm a rube, and I want something to get behind. I want to see some kind of method to the madness. It's much more interesting, as a fan, to understand the what the team is trying to do, so I can read and research and watch for players to fit the system (I can't answer why, I just like it). It makes college football more fun, it makes the combine and draft bearable. It makes me want to drive to cleveland, pay for a hotel room, spend money at the local bars, spend $8 for a beer at the stadium, and cheer for a team I'm trying to identify with. I'm the customer, and I need some kind of buy-in. Right now, I don't have that. I moved away 4 years ago, and have been to at least one game every year since. They need to make me want to come back next year.

Again. Simply my opinion.

You get behind the colors. Behind the jerseys. Simple as that. If you are in this for the rewards, you might be in trouble.

Given this is the first series of moves, and they are not going to tell you what they are planning, you are going to have to wait until after the draft to see the diresction. Right now, the fun to me is seeing there are so many different ways draft weekend can go.

After this draft/season, the picture becomes more clear. We will be able to see where they are headed. At least if things go right. Which I hope. Because I have to.

[peeker643]

Again. Simply my opinion.

You get behind the colors. Behind the jerseys. Simple as that. If you are in this for the rewards, you might be in trouble.

After this draft/season, the picture becomes more clear. We will be able to see where they are headed. At least if things go right. Which I hope. Because I have to.

Cue the Patton clip and the national anthem in the background........

BTW, I now use your sweatshirt that came with the Fantasy League title as an extra towel when I hit the Y. You playing tomorrow or not? I can get it to you or hand it over to one of your drunken, irresponsible friends.

[pup]

Again. Simply my opinion.

You get behind the colors. Behind the jerseys. Simple as that. If you are in this for the rewards, you might be in trouble.

After this draft/season, the picture becomes more clear. We will be able to see where they are headed. At least if things go right. Which I hope. Because I have to.

Cue the Patton clip and the national anthem in the background........

BTW, I now use your sweatshirt that came with the Fantasy League title as an extra towel when I hit the Y. You playing tomorrow or not? I can get it to you or hand it over to one of your drunken, irresponsible friends.

Will you sign it for me?

I'll be there.

[Wolfy7]

[/quote]


Cue the Patton clip and the national anthem in the background........

BTW, I now use your sweatshirt that came with the Fantasy League title as an extra towel when I hit the Y. You playing tomorrow or not?[b] I can get it to you or hand it over to one of your drunken, irresponsible friends[/b].[/quote]

HEY! Is he talking about me?