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Jurevicius to be released

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Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Chris » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:56 pm

Per Tony Rizzo on Fox 8.

....er.....wow.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:43 pm

That'll free up a handicapped parking spot at both the CBS players lot and in Berea. Plus the salary saved!! That's called maximizing your efficiency in a sluggish economy.

I hope they at least have someone pack up the prosthetic legs and put them in his car.

What a pathetic organization. My God.

You knew he was never going to play again after you nearly killed him. Letting him dictate the terms of his retirement was too much to ask?

I guess so.

The guy deserved better than this fucking putrid organization.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby BDFD » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:47 pm

I see it differently. Everyone knew he was never going to play again and he was going to retire. Isn't the first step toward retirement is to be released? Is there another official contractual way to graciously retire? Maybe he asked to be released so it helps the team. The glass is half full today.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:48 pm

What a numb nuts move. The guy wanted to play here, despite the problems with Staph. The guy has balls and heart, two things the Browns are very very short on.

Shouldn't we keep guys who WANT to play here?

Another clueless move by a moronic franchise.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby ilasch » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:06 pm

For the record, they asked the guy to restructure before they released him. Not that it was the best move ever, but to be fair, it wasn't completely out of the blue, either.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:06 pm

BDFD wrote:I see it differently. Everyone knew he was never going to play again and he was going to retire. Isn't the first step toward retirement is to be released? Is there another official contractual way to graciously retire? Maybe he asked to be released so it helps the team. The glass is half full today.


Valid point. I don't know how it went down and maybe he did seek a release to do whatever he needed to do. I thought retiring and walking away would be fine. But maybe by releasing him they owe him a pro rated portion of a bonus or something and he actually walks, well, limps away with something.

I just now immediately assume the organization fucked up and mishandled the siuation.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:09 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:What a numb nuts move. The guy wanted to play here, despite the problems with Staph. The guy has balls and heart, two things the Browns are very very short on.

Shouldn't we keep guys who WANT to play here?

Another clueless move by a moronic franchise.


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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby davemanddd » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:12 pm

well jesus, why don't we just cut all our best players and bring in all the jets scrubs??? isn't that what "mang-kok dangerous" is doing anyway??? i swear this team is such a joke. thank god for the cavs. the browns are soon on their way to becoming irrelevant on the cleveland sports scene. at this point i think i would much rather watch indoor soccer than to watch these fools just defile the brown and orange.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:15 pm

Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby ilasch » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:26 pm

Peeker643 wrote:Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.


Look, I'm a big Joe Jurevicius fan, and always have been. But let's be honest. The team went to him, in the last year of his deal, and asked him to restructure so that they wouldn't have to pay him almost two and a half million. He decided that he didn't owe the team anything, as is his right. But in the NFL, if it would save a team money to cut you, they ask you restructure, and you decline, there is only ever one outcome. With all the surgeries he's had, you knew he wasn't going to play. That they even gave him the option to restructure is a small miracle.

You can't read the last chapter of a book and complain that the author sucks because he didn't pay enough attention to developing his characters...
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:37 pm

ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.


Look, I'm a big Joe Jurevicius fan, and always have been. But let's be honest. The team went to him, in the last year of his deal, and asked him to restructure so that they wouldn't have to pay him almost two and a half million. He decided that he didn't owe the team anything, as is his right. But in the NFL, if it would save a team money to cut you, they ask you restructure, and you decline, there is only ever one outcome. With all the surgeries he's had, you knew he wasn't going to play. That they even gave him the option to restructure is a small miracle.

You can't read the last chapter of a book and complain that the author sucks because he didn't pay enough attention to developing his characters...


Ok, but why is it expected of Joe to restructure his contract? Why not one of the under performing slugs? Stallworthless? Joe might not play again, I get that, but it's not his fault. Why should he pay when he already endured a horrid infection? He worked hard for this team, on and off the field. Pay the man and if he can play let him, god knows he can catch and be dangerous in the red zone.

Joe doesn't owe this team a goddamn thing, it's the other way around, they owe him.

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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:18 pm

ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.


Look, I'm a big Joe Jurevicius fan, and always have been. But let's be honest. The team went to him, in the last year of his deal, and asked him to restructure so that they wouldn't have to pay him almost two and a half million. He decided that he didn't owe the team anything, as is his right. But in the NFL, if it would save a team money to cut you, they ask you restructure, and you decline, there is only ever one outcome. With all the surgeries he's had, you knew he wasn't going to play. That they even gave him the option to restructure is a small miracle.

You can't read the last chapter of a book and complain that the author sucks because he didn't pay enough attention to developing his characters...


ilasch- do you have the link where the club announced his release? Terms of the restructure offer, cap hit, etc?
Last edited by peeker643 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby OSU819903 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:20 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.


Look, I'm a big Joe Jurevicius fan, and always have been. But let's be honest. The team went to him, in the last year of his deal, and asked him to restructure so that they wouldn't have to pay him almost two and a half million. He decided that he didn't owe the team anything, as is his right. But in the NFL, if it would save a team money to cut you, they ask you restructure, and you decline, there is only ever one outcome. With all the surgeries he's had, you knew he wasn't going to play. That they even gave him the option to restructure is a small miracle.

You can't read the last chapter of a book and complain that the author sucks because he didn't pay enough attention to developing his characters...


Ok, but why is it expected of Joe to restructure his contract? Why not one of the under performing slugs? Stallworthless? Joe might not play again, I get that, but it's not his fault. Why should he pay when he already endured a horrid infection? He worked hard for this team, on and off the field. Pay the man and if he can play let him, god knows he can catch and be dangerous in the red zone.

Joe doesn't owe this team a goddamn thing, it's the other way around, they owe him.

IOU 1 knee.


I love Joe and this is a bit tongue and cheek, but how much money did the team pay him last year when he couldn't do anything? Bottom line is that it's a business and for all we know Joe didn't restructure b/c he wanted to see if he could play for a winner one more time before he retires (if he can even play). And nothing that went on with this team last year is ManKok's problem. I mean they have to deal with the consequences but it is unreasonable to assume that they're going to bend over backwards for breaking down players that caught horrible breaks last year; no matter where there from.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=9460
Last edited by OSU819903 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby 4thQtrGlory » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:20 pm

Joe was a class act guy. Its too bad things went the way that they did. And too bad he didnt spend his entire career here.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:23 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.


Look, I'm a big Joe Jurevicius fan, and always have been. But let's be honest. The team went to him, in the last year of his deal, and asked him to restructure so that they wouldn't have to pay him almost two and a half million. He decided that he didn't owe the team anything, as is his right. But in the NFL, if it would save a team money to cut you, they ask you restructure, and you decline, there is only ever one outcome. With all the surgeries he's had, you knew he wasn't going to play. That they even gave him the option to restructure is a small miracle.

You can't read the last chapter of a book and complain that the author sucks because he didn't pay enough attention to developing his characters...


ilasch- do you have the link where the club announced his release?


I hope you guys bring this up on the show tonight, I can feel the venom in your posts, and am curious to see how it translates on the radio. It definately doesn't seem like Joey J got to end his career on his terms or the way he originally envisioned it, and that's a shame.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:40 pm

OSU819903 wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.


Look, I'm a big Joe Jurevicius fan, and always have been. But let's be honest. The team went to him, in the last year of his deal, and asked him to restructure so that they wouldn't have to pay him almost two and a half million. He decided that he didn't owe the team anything, as is his right. But in the NFL, if it would save a team money to cut you, they ask you restructure, and you decline, there is only ever one outcome. With all the surgeries he's had, you knew he wasn't going to play. That they even gave him the option to restructure is a small miracle.

You can't read the last chapter of a book and complain that the author sucks because he didn't pay enough attention to developing his characters...


Ok, but why is it expected of Joe to restructure his contract? Why not one of the under performing slugs? Stallworthless? Joe might not play again, I get that, but it's not his fault. Why should he pay when he already endured a horrid infection? He worked hard for this team, on and off the field. Pay the man and if he can play let him, god knows he can catch and be dangerous in the red zone.

Joe doesn't owe this team a goddamn thing, it's the other way around, they owe him.

IOU 1 knee.


I love Joe and this is a bit tongue and cheek, but how much money did the team pay him last year when he couldn't do anything? Bottom line is that it's a business and for all we know Joe didn't restructure b/c he wanted to see if he could play for a winner one more time before he retires (if he can even play). And nothing that went on with this team last year is ManKok's problem. I mean they have to deal with the consequences but it is unreasonable to assume that they're going to bend over backwards for breaking down players that caught horrible breaks last year; no matter where there from.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=9460


I agree with you to an extent. I just don't get how paying Joe what he is owed is "bending over backwards". It's the same way I feel about guys like K2 who want to renegotiate midway through a contract.

I'm under the impression that Joe does wants to play next year, and that he wants to play here. We are in short supply of guys like that. We are thin at WR anyway.

I just feel he should be paid, and given the chance to come to camp. Maybe i'm wrong, maybe it's smart business. Being a Browns fan has made cynical on all their "smart moves and business decisions".
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby DrPoove » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:44 pm

Peeker643 wrote:You knew he was never going to play again after you nearly killed him. Letting him dictate the terms of his retirement was too much to ask?

This is the dishearting thing, IMHO.

Anyone who thought he was a lock to play this season was thinking with their heart and not their head (7!!! surgeries).

BUT he deserved the chance to announce/dictate the timing of it. From here, wanted to play here almost died because of a staph infection here.

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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:11 pm

Here is where my indifference about this team lately comes in to full effect, I dont even get infuriated when we kick someone like JJ to the curb. Go Cavs :bag:
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby ilasch » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:48 pm

Peeker643 wrote:ilasch- do you have the link where the club announced his release? Terms of the restructure offer, cap hit, etc?


AP Story regarding his release:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jBOvSIRmoo01FrZvh9gWSr10g3hgD96S6R0O0
"The Browns had approached Jurevicius and his agent, David Dunn, about restructuring his contract."

Here's where rotoworld is actually reporting that he was due $2.9M this year:
http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=245
"Jurevicius was due $2.9M and the poor guy underwent seven known knee surgeries in less than a 12-month span ending in Dec. 2008."

The only place I can find a citation of the $0.5M bonus he was due is on OBR, and I'm not going to cite another message board as gospel. Incidentally, they also called that a roster bonus, so there's a chance the Browns saved all $2.9M.

Anyway, I'm just trying to look at both sides of the story. I'm as sorry to see Joe go as just about anyone here, but it's part of the business, and not just this organization. You can hate the system, but don't hate just one cog in the machine.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Crash Davis » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:49 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.


Look, I'm a big Joe Jurevicius fan, and always have been. But let's be honest. The team went to him, in the last year of his deal, and asked him to restructure so that they wouldn't have to pay him almost two and a half million. He decided that he didn't owe the team anything, as is his right. But in the NFL, if it would save a team money to cut you, they ask you restructure, and you decline, there is only ever one outcome. With all the surgeries he's had, you knew he wasn't going to play. That they even gave him the option to restructure is a small miracle.

You can't read the last chapter of a book and complain that the author sucks because he didn't pay enough attention to developing his characters...


Ok, but why is it expected of Joe to restructure his contract? Why not one of the under performing slugs? Stallworthless? Joe might not play again.


This is a valid point. Whoever heard of a team restructuring a contract that only had one year remaining on it and minimal cap effect? If it's happened before in the last year of a deal I don't recall but if so has it happen with a guy that was only due a $500K bonus and with what little (2.9 mil) Joe was to make in '09 that counted towards the cap when we don't have another WR's but Scissorhands? They knew they didn't want him for whatever reason and knew he wouldn't except a contract that was no longer guaranteed. This was a witch hunt in disguise which is what I have problem with. Fine if Joe's not in your plans just say so and be upfront about it but don't go to him and dress it up as "we want to restructure that last year on your contract so you can remain a Brown" when you don't want him to start with.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby ilasch » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:56 pm

Crash Davis wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.


Look, I'm a big Joe Jurevicius fan, and always have been. But let's be honest. The team went to him, in the last year of his deal, and asked him to restructure so that they wouldn't have to pay him almost two and a half million. He decided that he didn't owe the team anything, as is his right. But in the NFL, if it would save a team money to cut you, they ask you restructure, and you decline, there is only ever one outcome. With all the surgeries he's had, you knew he wasn't going to play. That they even gave him the option to restructure is a small miracle.

You can't read the last chapter of a book and complain that the author sucks because he didn't pay enough attention to developing his characters...


Ok, but why is it expected of Joe to restructure his contract? Why not one of the under performing slugs? Stallworthless? Joe might not play again.


This is a valid point. Whoever heard of a team restructuring a contract that only had one year remaining on it and minimal cap effect? Maybe if that's happened its before I doubt its happen with a guy that was only due a $500K bonus what Joe was making. They knew they didn't want him for whatever reason and knew he wouldn't except a contract that was no longer guaranteed. This was witch hunt disguised which what I have problem with. Fine if Joe's not in your plans just say so and be upfront about it but don't go to him and dress it up as "we want to restructure that last year on your contract so you can remain a Brown" when you don't want him to start with.


What's your legitimate worst case scenario? That they offered him veteran minimum or they'd cut him? So he had the option of taking the vet minimum of $1.1M for a year he may very well not even play, or opting to stick with his nearly $3 million contract, knowing he might be cut anyway if he takes option #2? If he got the raw end of the deal, it's because he chose it.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:05 pm

ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:ilasch- do you have the link where the club announced his release? Terms of the restructure offer, cap hit, etc?


AP Story regarding his release:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jBOvSIRmoo01FrZvh9gWSr10g3hgD96S6R0O0
"The Browns had approached Jurevicius and his agent, David Dunn, about restructuring his contract."

Here's where rotoworld is actually reporting that he was due $2.9M this year:
http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=245
"Jurevicius was due $2.9M and the poor guy underwent seven known knee surgeries in less than a 12-month span ending in Dec. 2008."

The only place I can find a citation of the $0.5M bonus he was due is on OBR, and I'm not going to cite another message board as gospel. Incidentally, they also called that a roster bonus, so there's a chance the Browns saved all $2.9M.

Anyway, I'm just trying to look at both sides of the story. I'm as sorry to see Joe go as just about anyone here, but it's part of the business, and not just this organization. You can hate the system, but don't hate just one cog in the machine.


No arguing that ilasch. Just arguing the 'hows'. Believe me, I understand the business and the fact his story was written when he got hurt and cut 7 times. But you reap what you sow regarding how you go about things. You can alienate a lot of people and prospective players in how you handle things.

Another opportunity lost in building relationships with people, fans, players, alum, etc.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby ilasch » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:19 pm

Peeker643 wrote:No arguing that ilasch. Just arguing the 'hows'. Believe me, I understand the business and the fact his story was written when he got hurt and cut 7 times. But you reap what you sow regarding how you go about things. You can alienate a lot of people and prospective players in how you handle things.

Another opportunity lost in building relationships with people, fans, players, alum, etc.


I'm not saying that you're wrong just for having that idea occur to you. But the amazing thing to me, in this situation, is that they went to him in the last year of his deal and even asked to restructure. I've seen this same situation play out numerous times before, but you know how it starts every time? The team just cuts the guy, no warning given, then tries to re-sign him when he's staring down a year of making $0. In recent memory, the way the Jets played the Brandon Moore issue comes to mind.

It always seems sudden, particularly when the front office isn't giving daily updates. I haven't seen one quote yet from Joe J saying he was dissatisfied with how it all went down. Until I do, I'm reserving judgment.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Crash Davis » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:24 pm

ilasch wrote:
Crash Davis wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:Just to be clear, I've said since last year that JJ would never play again. I have no problem with that. I just have an issue when a native who did and said all the right things gets yanked around.

I know it's a business and I know he's done, but there's a right and wrong way, IMO. to go about it.

Receivers that can't jog are not amongst you best players. Although I can understand the thought when Steptoe and Stallworth are still on the roster.


Look, I'm a big Joe Jurevicius fan, and always have been. But let's be honest. The team went to him, in the last year of his deal, and asked him to restructure so that they wouldn't have to pay him almost two and a half million. He decided that he didn't owe the team anything, as is his right. But in the NFL, if it would save a team money to cut you, they ask you restructure, and you decline, there is only ever one outcome. With all the surgeries he's had, you knew he wasn't going to play. That they even gave him the option to restructure is a small miracle.

You can't read the last chapter of a book and complain that the author sucks because he didn't pay enough attention to developing his characters...


Ok, but why is it expected of Joe to restructure his contract? Why not one of the under performing slugs? Stallworthless? Joe might not play again.


This is a valid point. Whoever heard of a team restructuring a contract that only had one year remaining on it and minimal cap effect? Maybe if that's happened its before I doubt its happen with a guy that was only due a $500K bonus what Joe was making. They knew they didn't want him for whatever reason and knew he wouldn't except a contract that was no longer guaranteed. This was witch hunt disguised which what I have problem with. Fine if Joe's not in your plans just say so and be upfront about it but don't go to him and dress it up as "we want to restructure that last year on your contract so you can remain a Brown" when you don't want him to start with.


What's your legitimate worst case scenario? That they offered him veteran minimum or they'd cut him? So he had the option of taking the vet minimum of $1.1M for a year he may very well not even play, or opting to stick with his nearly $3 million contract, knowing he might be cut anyway if he takes option #2? If he got the raw end of the deal, it's because he chose it.


My legitimate worse case scenario is they went to him asking him to restructure his contract that barely effected their cap this year knowing without guaranteed money in the new, restructured deal he wouldn't take it because they didn't want him back anyway. I only have a problem with the way it went down, they didn't want him so fine just say we're moving in a different direction. With this fan base as fragile as it is right now they can ill afford to operate in any way that perceives that they aren't being truthful. Again Joe probably needed to be released based on what little he probably could have contributed to the team this year but why go through the whole Dog and Pony show of contacting his agent with a non-guaranteed contract in Joe's last year?
Last edited by Crash Davis on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby ilasch » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:33 pm

Crash Davis wrote:My legitimate worse case scenario is they went to him asking him to restructure his contract that barely effected their cap this year knowing without guaranteed money in the new, restructured deal he wouldn't take it because they didn't want him back anyway. I only have a problem with the way it went down, they didn't want him so fine just say we're moving in a different direction.


Where have you heard that they didn't want him? Everything I've read sounded regretful that a deal couldn't be worked out.

They gave him a chance to earn at least a million dollars, if he could play. Their other options were to unceremoniously cut the guy or to pay him half a mil for nostalgia's sake. Neither of those are in any way smart.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:37 pm

ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:No arguing that ilasch. Just arguing the 'hows'. Believe me, I understand the business and the fact his story was written when he got hurt and cut 7 times. But you reap what you sow regarding how you go about things. You can alienate a lot of people and prospective players in how you handle things.

Another opportunity lost in building relationships with people, fans, players, alum, etc.


I'm not saying that you're wrong just for having that idea occur to you. But the amazing thing to me, in this situation, is that they went to him in the last year of his deal and even asked to restructure. I've seen this same situation play out numerous times before, but you know how it starts every time? The team just cuts the guy, no warning given, then tries to re-sign him when he's staring down a year of making $0. In recent memory, the way the Jets played the Brandon Moore issue comes to mind.

It always seems sudden, particularly when the front office isn't giving daily updates. I haven't seen one quote yet from Joe J saying he was dissatisfied with how it all went down. Until I do, I'm reserving judgment.


That's fair enough. You won't hear Jurevicius say shit even if he has a mouthful though. Just my guess, because the guy ain't about that.

The org just no longer gets the benefit of doubt with me though. I've been wrong before, I hope I am again.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Crash Davis » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:42 pm

ilasch wrote:
Crash Davis wrote:My legitimate worse case scenario is they went to him asking him to restructure his contract that barely effected their cap this year knowing without guaranteed money in the new, restructured deal he wouldn't take it because they didn't want him back anyway. I only have a problem with the way it went down, they didn't want him so fine just say we're moving in a different direction.


Where have you heard that they didn't want him? Everything I've read sounded regretful that a deal couldn't be worked out.

They gave him a chance to earn at least a million dollars, if he could play. Their other options were to unceremoniously cut the guy or to pay him half a mil for nostalgia's sake. Neither of those are in any way smart.


Read between the lines as I previously stated his bonus was only 500K and he barely affected the team cap at 2.9 mil where all you have left is Braylon Edward Scissorhands catching passes. The team is nowhere near the salary cap now after the Winslow trade and Tucker's restructured deal and the option they had could have been reaching an injury settlement at the end of camp with Joe had they really wanted him and found out that he just couldn't hack it (see Gary Baxter). It may be smart to you to but with Jurevicius being a local guy who was beloved by the fans and this being a third reboot by the organization in the last 10 years from a public relations standpoint its not smart at all.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby ilasch » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:46 pm

Peeker643 wrote:That's fair enough. You won't hear Jurevicius say shit even if he has a mouthful though. Just my guess, because the guy ain't about that.

The org just no longer gets the benefit of doubt with me though. I've been wrong before, I hope I am again.


No, you're probably right about that. Joe won't say boo. But if the situation was mishandled at all, I'd put money on the CPD catching wind of it and airing it out just to say again how badly Mangini and Kokinis are mismanaging things.

I'm not trying to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, really. Just trying to wait until all the facts are in. If the new front office really tried to hose Joe J, shame on them. If all they did was try to refrain from throwing half a mil his way while not knowing if the guy will even see the field, it's a different story, at least in my eyes.

And Crash, you're right, it's not a huge cap figure. But giving a guy who can't play half a mil guaranteed when you just took heat for laying off some staff wouldn't endear them to the fans, either.

Anyway, I'm done. I'm sure I end up sounding like a shill, and that's not at all where I'm trying to go. I just don't see it as black and white as everyone else seems to. At least, not yet.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:08 am

ilasch wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:That's fair enough. You won't hear Jurevicius say shit even if he has a mouthful though. Just my guess, because the guy ain't about that.

The org just no longer gets the benefit of doubt with me though. I've been wrong before, I hope I am again.


No, you're probably right about that. Joe won't say boo. But if the situation was mishandled at all, I'd put money on the CPD catching wind of it and airing it out just to say again how badly Mangini and Kokinis are mismanaging things.

I'm not trying to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, really. Just trying to wait until all the facts are in. If the new front office really tried to hose Joe J, shame on them. If all they did was try to refrain from throwing half a mil his way while not knowing if the guy will even see the field, it's a different story, at least in my eyes.

And Crash, you're right, it's not a huge cap figure. But giving a guy who can't play half a mil guaranteed when you just took heat for laying off some staff wouldn't endear them to the fans, either.

Anyway, I'm done. I'm sure I end up sounding like a shill, and that's not at all where I'm trying to go. I just don't see it as black and white as everyone else seems to. At least, not yet.


Not from where I sit. It makes sense. So does the cash saved when looking at the staff layoffs.

I also agree that while Joe J might not say anything someone could likely leak...err...speak on his behalf in that regard.

It's just you don't have to look to hard to find situations where this org has looked callous and uncaring in the recent past. And on the surface it seems that way again to me.

Post more often ilasch.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby 4thQtrGlory » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:53 am

so who do you guys think is next on list cuts/trades? Im thinking Kevin Schaffer or Donte Stallworth. Im pretty sure we might be stuck with Donte's contract, but at this point id trade him for a bag of footballs if it meant dumping his salary.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby OrangeElf » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:00 am

The Cleveland Browns think they can do whatever they want because they have an iron-clad grip on the Fans. But I think that the losing seasons, poorly-run organization, and total lack of class will begin to wear on the fans and we may begin to see the Browns slip in popularity. This move may be the start of that revolt. This organization is sorely in need of some good PR along with the obvious a good product on the field. If Mangini can deliver the later the PR situation will take care of itself but he does not deliver I am not sure these fans will take to kindly to another restructuring of the organization. My prediction is that Mangini will have three or four average years here and will have alienated the media and fans to the point that Randy has no choice but fire him.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:01 am

4thQtrGlory wrote:so who do you guys think is next on list cuts/trades? Im thinking Kevin Schaffer or Donte Stallworth. Im pretty sure we might be stuck with Donte's contract, but at this point id trade him for a bag of footballs if it meant dumping his salary.


Even if they "dumped" his salary in a trade, they would get hammered with the accelerated cap hit if I understand it correctly.

We seem to be completely stuck with him right now. Can't cut him or trade him and end up in a better position than we're in right now. Perhaps next year we can do something with him.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby jb » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:10 am

Chris wrote:Per Tony Rizzo on Fox 8.

....er.....wow.



So it was on PFB.com, eh? ;-)

Hardly a shocker. ManKok has already jettosinned all the injured players and JJ was a longshot anyway. And so the great Homeboy movement of 2006 ends with a whimper, or perhaps the silent growth of stephylocacus...

At least Zastudil is still here.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Lubber » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:13 am

OrangeElf wrote:The Cleveland Browns think they can do whatever they want because they have an iron-clad grip on the Fans. But I think that the losing seasons, poorly-run organization, and total lack of class will begin to wear on the fans and we may begin to see the Browns slip in popularity. This move may be the start of that revolt. This organization is sorely in need of some good PR along with the obvious a good product on the field. If Mangini can deliver the later the PR situation will take care of itself but he does not deliver I am not sure these fans will take to kindly to another restructuring of the organization. My prediction is that Mangini will have three or four average years here and will have alienated the media and fans to the point that Randy has no choice but fire him.


Unfortunately, good PR does not win football games. Players who are able to play help you win football games. I admire JJ as much as the next guy due to his committment to his hometown, his toughness on the field, generosity, etc, (the list goes on and on). But lets face facts, he was not going to play this year, and Mangini needs guys who are going to be able to play.

RAC had some good PR letting players run around in their socks, always smiling like Grimace. Did not translate into too many victories :(
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:13 am

OrangeElf wrote:The Cleveland Browns think they can do whatever they want because they have an iron-clad grip on the Fans. But I think that the losing seasons, poorly-run organization, and total lack of class will begin to wear on the fans and we may begin to see the Browns slip in popularity. This move may be the start of that revolt. This organization is sorely in need of some good PR along with the obvious a good product on the field. If Mangini can deliver the later the PR situation will take care of itself but he does not deliver I am not sure these fans will take to kindly to another restructuring of the organization. My prediction is that Mangini will have three or four average years here and will have alienated the media and fans to the point that Randy has no choice but fire him.


Do you really think that this is their mind-set? DO you actually think they act with the thought that they can do anything they want because the have fans' balls in a vice?

Come on. Mangini and Kokonis have a job and someone to answer to. They can't make decisions based on the fact that they have a captive audience in C-town fans, they have to make decisions based on what they think is best for the team, and to clarify that, I mean they have to make whatever decisions they beilieve will help the Browns win games, because that's how they will keep thier jobs.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:15 am

JCoz wrote:
OrangeElf wrote:The Cleveland Browns think they can do whatever they want because they have an iron-clad grip on the Fans. But I think that the losing seasons, poorly-run organization, and total lack of class will begin to wear on the fans and we may begin to see the Browns slip in popularity. This move may be the start of that revolt. This organization is sorely in need of some good PR along with the obvious a good product on the field. If Mangini can deliver the later the PR situation will take care of itself but he does not deliver I am not sure these fans will take to kindly to another restructuring of the organization. My prediction is that Mangini will have three or four average years here and will have alienated the media and fans to the point that Randy has no choice but fire him.


Do you really think that this is their mind-set? DO you actually think they act with the thought that they can do anything they want because the have fans' balls in a vice?

Come on. Mangini and Kokonis have a job and someone to answer to. They can't make decisions based on the fact that they have a captive audience in C-town fans, they have to make decisions based on what they think is best for the team, and to clarify that, I mean they have to make whatever decisions they beilieve will help the Browns win games, because that's how they will keep thier jobs.


Now, I'm not saying they will make the RIGHT decisions, just saying that their motive IS to win games.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby jb » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:17 am

Comes around, goes around Lake County-ites.

Now you know why I was all bent over Bently last year.

I hear Roger's gravvelly voice and Pete's guitar. New boss. Old boss.

The common denominator lies where?

Oh well, at least Butch Davis is hooked up still.

I can't wait for the inevitable SD post telling everyone to pull up their lacey thongs and adjust their garter belts. 3...2...1...
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:47 am

JB wrote:Comes around, goes around Lake County-ites.

Now you know why I was all bent over Bently last year.

I hear Roger's gravvelly voice and Pete's guitar. New boss. Old boss.

The common denominator lies where?

Oh well, at least Butch Davis is hooked up still.

I can't wait for the inevitable SD post telling everyone to pull up their lacey thongs and adjust their garter belts. 3...2...1...


What did Bentley end up doing last season?
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:22 am

JCoz wrote:
JB wrote:Comes around, goes around Lake County-ites.

Now you know why I was all bent over Bently last year.

I hear Roger's gravvelly voice and Pete's guitar. New boss. Old boss.

The common denominator lies where?

Oh well, at least Butch Davis is hooked up still.

I can't wait for the inevitable SD post telling everyone to pull up their lacey thongs and adjust their garter belts. 3...2...1...


What did Bentley end up doing last season?


The same thing Joe is going to do this year.

Your one season was magic Joe.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:28 am

Pup wrote:
JCoz wrote:
JB wrote:Comes around, goes around Lake County-ites.

Now you know why I was all bent over Bently last year.

I hear Roger's gravvelly voice and Pete's guitar. New boss. Old boss.

The common denominator lies where?

Oh well, at least Butch Davis is hooked up still.

I can't wait for the inevitable SD post telling everyone to pull up their lacey thongs and adjust their garter belts. 3...2...1...


What did Bentley end up doing last season?


The same thing Joe is going to do this year.

Your one season was magic Joe.


Exactly.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby DrPoove » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:10 am

It was a business decision, and the correct one, IMHO. But the way they handled it was Mickey Mouse.

And not the good Mickey Mouse with baloons, ice cream and dwarfs.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:19 am

What are they supposed to do? Have a presser and give him a key to the city?
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby idoctribefan » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:21 am

JCoz wrote:
4thQtrGlory wrote:so who do you guys think is next on list cuts/trades? Im thinking Kevin Schaffer or Donte Stallworth. Im pretty sure we might be stuck with Donte's contract, but at this point id trade him for a bag of footballs if it meant dumping his salary.


Even if they "dumped" his salary in a trade, they would get hammered with the accelerated cap hit if I understand it correctly.

We seem to be completely stuck with him right now. Can't cut him or trade him and end up in a better position than we're in right now. Perhaps next year we can do something with him.


Maybe we could have him work on the chain gang during home games. Could dump one of the current guys and save the organization a few hundred dollars per week. If we need him to enter the game, have him hand the stick to Braylon....but be sure somebody else is there to pick it up if he drops it.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:49 am

Pup wrote:What are they supposed to do? Have a presser and give him a key to the city?


Well, a team that has any sense and class at all would read the tea leaves (or any fucking message board in town, radio show, etc) and see they have an image problem right now.

Then they would hold a press conference, potentially have Jurevicius in the room, advise they're discussing a position within the organization, you know, the right thing.

Even if they're not. Even if JJ wanted no part of it. Get up there without him amd put your best spin on the situation. Take the high ground and position yourself going forward.

Why? because people are stupid, 90% of Browns fans are stupid and 90% of the morons would suck it up, believe and assume this org cares about things like kids who grew up here, came back here and were nearly maimed here.
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So yeah, anything other than the standard "we appreciate insert name here and his contributions" press release would have been appropriate.

Not so much because they were sincere, though that would have been nice to see, but because it would have shown they were at least thinking beyond the move they made.

They don't have the talent to play any game right now. Not on the field and not in the board room.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby justmebd » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:18 pm

I have a PR background, and I'm just pounding my head against the wall because this is the kind of stuff you hire PR guys for. If the team makes what can be considered a controversial move by the fanbase, it's up to the PR guy to bring everything into focus and keep everyone on the same train.

While it's usually the coach or the GM who sit in front of the cameras, a lot of times it's the PR guys who craft the "angle."

By the way, if anyone knows anybody who's hiring someone with a media/PR/Marketing background, my job is going away in a few weeks. PM me.

I read the other day the Browns just hired a PR guy, I wish I would've seen that opening.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Guest » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:25 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
Pup wrote:What are they supposed to do? Have a presser and give him a key to the city?


Well, a team that has any sense and class at all would read the tea leaves (or any fucking message board in town, radio show, etc) and see they have an image problem right now.

Then they would hold a press conference, potentially have Jurevicius in the room, advise they're discussing a position within the organization, you know, the right thing.

Even if they're not. Even if JJ wanted no part of it. Get up there without him amd put your best spin on the situation. Take the high ground and position yourself going forward.

Why? because people are stupid, 90% of Browns fans are stupid and 90% of the morons would suck it up, believe and assume this org cares about things like kids who grew up here, came back here and were nearly maimed here.
April 1st deadline for making a choice on renewing tickets (the irony of the date is thick).

So yeah, anything other than the standard "we appreciate insert name here and his contributions" press release would have been appropriate.

Not so much because they were sincere, though that would have been nice to see, but because it would have shown they were at least thinking beyond the move they made.

They don't have the talent to play any game right now. Not on the field and not in the board room.


I too am disheartened by JJ getting cut. But, uh, you might be going off the deep end a bit on this post.

Mangini & Kokinis don't owe JJ a goddam thing. Lerner, however, does. Maybe Lerner will give him that Chris Palmer guy-don't-go-away-mad-just-go-away payment.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:34 pm

Hiko wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:
Pup wrote:What are they supposed to do? Have a presser and give him a key to the city?


Well, a team that has any sense and class at all would read the tea leaves (or any fucking message board in town, radio show, etc) and see they have an image problem right now.

Then they would hold a press conference, potentially have Jurevicius in the room, advise they're discussing a position within the organization, you know, the right thing.

Even if they're not. Even if JJ wanted no part of it. Get up there without him amd put your best spin on the situation. Take the high ground and position yourself going forward.

Why? because people are stupid, 90% of Browns fans are stupid and 90% of the morons would suck it up, believe and assume this org cares about things like kids who grew up here, came back here and were nearly maimed here.
April 1st deadline for making a choice on renewing tickets (the irony of the date is thick).

So yeah, anything other than the standard "we appreciate insert name here and his contributions" press release would have been appropriate.

Not so much because they were sincere, though that would have been nice to see, but because it would have shown they were at least thinking beyond the move they made.

They don't have the talent to play any game right now. Not on the field and not in the board room.


I too am disheartened by JJ getting cut. But, uh, you might be going off the deep end a bit on this post.

Mangini & Kokinis don't owe JJ a goddam thing. Lerner, however, does. Maybe Lerner will give him that Chris Palmer guy-don't-go-away-mad-just-go-away payment.


But by saying Lerner does, isn't taht agreeing with Peeker?

Look, this situation, with a local product, given the current public perceptions of the organization, could have been handled better.

That's all.

It's not a huge deal, but you could look at it as an opportunity lost ILO.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:51 pm

Hiko wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:
Pup wrote:What are they supposed to do? Have a presser and give him a key to the city?


Well, a team that has any sense and class at all would read the tea leaves (or any fucking message board in town, radio show, etc) and see they have an image problem right now.

Then they would hold a press conference, potentially have Jurevicius in the room, advise they're discussing a position within the organization, you know, the right thing.

Even if they're not. Even if JJ wanted no part of it. Get up there without him amd put your best spin on the situation. Take the high ground and position yourself going forward.

Why? because people are stupid, 90% of Browns fans are stupid and 90% of the morons would suck it up, believe and assume this org cares about things like kids who grew up here, came back here and were nearly maimed here.
April 1st deadline for making a choice on renewing tickets (the irony of the date is thick).

So yeah, anything other than the standard "we appreciate insert name here and his contributions" press release would have been appropriate.

Not so much because they were sincere, though that would have been nice to see, but because it would have shown they were at least thinking beyond the move they made.

They don't have the talent to play any game right now. Not on the field and not in the board room.


I too am disheartened by JJ getting cut. But, uh, you might be going off the deep end a bit on this post.

Mangini & Kokinis don't owe JJ a goddam thing. Lerner, however, does. Maybe Lerner will give him that Chris Palmer guy-don't-go-away-mad-just-go-away payment.



I agree. By 'they' I mean the royal 'they'. That has to be part of the fabric of an organization. I'm speaking toward what justmebd mentioned. Tis organization is unhealthy on the field and off. I think clearly so.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Guest » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:57 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:
Hiko wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:
Pup wrote:What are they supposed to do? Have a presser and give him a key to the city?


Well, a team that has any sense and class at all would read the tea leaves (or any fucking message board in town, radio show, etc) and see they have an image problem right now.

Then they would hold a press conference, potentially have Jurevicius in the room, advise they're discussing a position within the organization, you know, the right thing.

Even if they're not. Even if JJ wanted no part of it. Get up there without him amd put your best spin on the situation. Take the high ground and position yourself going forward.

Why? because people are stupid, 90% of Browns fans are stupid and 90% of the morons would suck it up, believe and assume this org cares about things like kids who grew up here, came back here and were nearly maimed here.
April 1st deadline for making a choice on renewing tickets (the irony of the date is thick).

So yeah, anything other than the standard "we appreciate insert name here and his contributions" press release would have been appropriate.

Not so much because they were sincere, though that would have been nice to see, but because it would have shown they were at least thinking beyond the move they made.

They don't have the talent to play any game right now. Not on the field and not in the board room.


I too am disheartened by JJ getting cut. But, uh, you might be going off the deep end a bit on this post.

Mangini & Kokinis don't owe JJ a goddam thing. Lerner, however, does. Maybe Lerner will give him that Chris Palmer guy-don't-go-away-mad-just-go-away payment.


But by saying Lerner does, isn't taht agreeing with Peeker?

Look, this situation, with a local product, given the current public perceptions of the organization, could have been handled better.

That's all.

It's not a huge deal, but you could look at it as an opportunity lost ILO.


a) I'm not one that cares if the guy was local or not. Players from Ohio mean no more to me than players from Iowa. Being from Ohio doesn't make them exceptional men.

b) I feel bad for JJ because he seemed a good guy and he got unlucky. Kind of a raw deal. Although, if he really wanted to stay, he would've taken the veteran minimum, which wasn't chump change.

c) I don't blame the Browns org for his staph. I'm pretty sure they didn't want him to get it any more than he did.

d) But it did happen as a Browns player, and under their watch, and knowing that some people out there care that he's local and that he wanted to play for the Browns growing up a Browns fan, then Lerner would be wise to try and mend his soiled local rep by extending a hand, especially when perception is that JJ got a raw deal.

e) The Browns should absolutely not carry a guy they think can't play because he's nice, he's local, or "for old time's sake".

f) Mangini and Kokinis have nothing to do with JJ. They didn't bring him in. He didn't get staph while they were here. They didn't refuse to visit him in the hospital. They thought his salary was too high for a player who is probably done, and tried to restructure him. Especially after Tucker just took the pay cut, how could they just let JJ not have to take it?

g) Mangini and Kokinis should not offer a position within the org. He wouldn't take it anyway (he wants to play), and it's not their responsibility. Why offer some ex-player that you don't know a position like that? If Lerner wants to, that's his deal.

h) No one in the Browns organization should listen to fans on message boards or radio shows. They shouldn't care for one second what goes on there. Their job is to make the Browns winners. If they do what they think is right to make the Browns winners, and it works, then the fans will be happy enough then. Don't go trying to please everybody, because you'll always fail.
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Re: Jurevicius to be released

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:57 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
Why? because people are stupid, 90% of Browns fans are stupid and 90% of the morons would suck it up, believe and assume this org cares about things like kids who grew up here, came back here and were nearly maimed here.


And here resides the root of mine Inner Hata. Matters of the heart rarely include consulting the mind, so tell me what I want to hear. Let me know JJ will be a special consultant to the WR coach. Tell me Lechuck will be head of strength and conditioning applications and first assistant to the VP of football procurement. Tell me anything that helps me identify with my hometown team. No one roots for this team because of their head, so for fuck's sake at least allow me to root for them with my heart.
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