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Cleveland Browns & The NFL

2007 Draft

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Unread postby SOBO » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:12 am

Personally here is my Browns board heading into all the offseason festivities...


1. Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin
1A. Adrian Peterson RB Oklahoma
2. JaMarcus Russell QB LSU
3. Calvin Johnson WR GaTech
4. Alan Branch DT Michigan
5. Brady Quinn

(switched the two QB's recently)
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Unread postby yogi » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:13 pm

I just watched the 1987 AFC Championship game with my 9 year old.

Yes, unfortunately for him, he's becoming one of us. He just saw the ectasy and the agony of being a Browns fan all condensed into 90 minutes.

The reason why I mention that game is every time I watch it, I fall in love with the type QB Bernie was. (Sipe too!)

I want more than anything for the Browns QB to be the smartest player out there on the field. I know Quinn had a bad game but if he understands the offense he is running and can read and exploit defenses, I want him. What information RAC gets from his ol buddy Weiss will be useful. This is NOT anything against Russell. I do not know anything about him except his exception arm and overall size from the 1 game I've seen him play. But if he score under 20 on the wonderlic test. I pass.

I had great hope for Charlie but he hasn't improved at all in reading the D and seeing the field. Maybe his recievers running the wrong routes has something to do with the overall problem, I don't know.

Seeing Bernie use his head to pick apart a defense was great. I want a QB of ours to do that again.
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Unread postby Lebowski » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:13 pm

Long time since I posted on here, but a couple of thoughts...

1. On the Troy Smith tip -- I was originally worried about the Ravens taking him in the first round. Would seem to fit the Browns fan protocol...but, would a RB make more sense for them. Lewis is aging, and I think they can get a couple more years outta McNair. Plus, their track record for drafting QBs is terrible, and Billick might feel more comfortable getting McNair successor thru FA. Gotta feeling they take Michael Buch from Louisville in rd 1.

2. Peterson is my no. 1 for the Browns right now. But, is anyone else concerned with his subpar performance in the Fiesta? Just rust?

3. If Joe Thomas is graded out at the Ogden, Boselli, Pace range, then he is worth the #3/4 pick. I don't think he's that good though.

4. The Sugar Bowl was the first time I got to watch an entire LSU game all season. Needless to say, I was impressed with Jamarcus Russell. Very strong arm. He's no. 2 on my Browns list right now. If Peterson is gone, I would look hard at Russell. Also, that game convinced me Quinn should be a mid-rounder. Not a top 10 player IMO.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:19 pm

3. If Joe Thomas is graded out at the Ogden, Boselli, Pace range, then he is worth the #3/4 pick. I don't think he's that good though.


This is my problem with the NFL draft. Teams that are continually in the top of the draft feel the pressure of the media and fan to take the best player on the board, no matter what their "need" is. The Cleveland Browns need to start blocking people. Even if Joe Thomas (or whomever they grade as the #1 OL) is 10th on their board, there is no greater need. If you can trade down and still get him, please do. But if the trade partners that are out there are more in the 15-20 range, then you have to pass because that guy won't be there. If you do not start drafting linemen, all the skill players in the world mean nothing.
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:50 pm

If Quinn or Russell are there when we pick, we have to take the franchise QB now. If both are gone, then I take Thomas.
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Unread postby swerb » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:53 pm

Right now, and I'll prolly change my mind 4-5 times in the next 4 months ... I am torn between Brady Quinn and Joe Thomas.
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:09 pm

I hate to let the cat out of the bag before my article posts, but I try to explain the logic of getting the QB now. The idea centers around the idea it takes a franchise QB 1-2 years to develop, 2007 looks to be a rebuilding year again so we can afford to sit the rookie all year, and we'll likely be in the top 10 again in the 2008 Draft when we can then take the best RB or OT available.

RBs and OTs can play right away....QBs generally cannot. It is why you get the QB first....then spend the rest of the 2007 Draft and all of the 2008 draft getting players up front to block for him and run for him, and also spend FA in 2007 and 2008 to fill the gaps you don't draft. There is no excuse, that if we took a QB with the #1 pick, why we can not fix the line issues with the rest of the draft this year and next in in FA the next two years, so when the 2008 season starts and Quinn/Russell are ready to start they have a good line in front of them.
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Unread postby Dozen » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:17 pm

I cannot stomach the thought of Quinn. If they were to take him it would make me very skeptical of this organization. I personally dont feel he translates into anything in the NFL. Now consiglier, you posted last week that "Brady Quinn = R. Mirer", didnt you? Now you want Savage (whom you've stated numerous of times,must go) to Draft Quinn?Image And then in a "rebuilding year" play a rookie QB and Crennel be the blame when they win 2-4 games. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm not following this logic. Don't take it personal, just trying to understand your view, thats all. :-) :smile: :) I would like them to either take Peterson or Russell with the 3-4 pick. I doubt J.R. falls to 3, but those are the only 2 IMO that are worthy. If they can't get either one of those guys, I'd like them to trade down and get the DL from scUM. Obviously Joe Thomas is the best OL in the draft. But dont kid yourself about how good he really is. I'm not saying the kids a bust, but he will by no means EVER live up to a top 5 draft pick. Do you honestly see him turning into a Ogden/Pace type of LT? I dont..........



On the other side of your argument to replace Crennel. IMO, it's going to hard to lure any decent O.C. when there is a high possibility that Crennel could be fired along with his staff after just 1 season. Toss in a rookie QB, and our OL and the job isnt that attractive even to a coach on the college level. So unless Savage tells whoever that they hire as O.C that he would be retained or Lerner throws a ton of money at them, they wont risk their career on it, who would? So they either have to replace him now, or give him at least 2 more years. Needless to say, this is Savage's most important offseason.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:44 pm

If they can't get either one of those guys, I'd like them to trade down and get the DL from scUM. Obviously Joe Thomas is the best OL in the draft. But dont kid yourself about how good he really is. I'm not saying the kids a bust, but he will by no means EVER live up to a top 5 draft pick. Do you honestly see him turning into a Ogden/Pace type of LT? I dont..........


You need someone to trade down with. If they can and still get Thomas then do it. But to not draft your biggest need because someone says he does not fit into the slot you happen to be picking in is ludicrous. I remember laughing my ass off when Cinci took there LT at about 10, when they could have had him at 20. Boy, I sure wish we had that guy! Would Joe Thomas be the best LT on the Browns? That is all he needs to be to be worthy of that pick.
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Unread postby Dozen » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:54 pm

Dont get me wrong, I dont think Thomas will end up worthy of a 1st rd pick. JMHO, thats all. And I wasnt saying they shouldnt a draft our biggest need cuz he's not worthy of that slot. I just think if they can fill another void by trading down, do it. At the end of the day, this team needs talent all over the place. There will be teams willing to move up this year, prolly more than in recent years. So in my perfect world, we draft Peterson. I think he is the best player in the draft. But thats just my opinion, and Ive benn mistaken before :lol:
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:40 am

Dozen, my idea on drafting a QB with the 1st pick is to have him SIT the entire season. The 2007 season is a dead season anyway, so let's get our franchise QB now and used the 2007 season to get his acquainted to the league so in 2008 we are ready to roll with him. It also gives us two complete offseasons to address the line as well.

As for Quinn, I am not a big fan of him. But, a lot of that has to do with my hatred for Notre Dame, so I probably have a hard time being objective with his abilities. :-) :smile: :) If we draft him, he'll be the next Montana.....if we don't, he'll be the next Mirer. :mrgreen:

(I reallly want JaMarcus over Quinn)
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Unread postby Dozen » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:39 am

This team has no more time to have for #1 draft picks sit for a year. I hate ND as well, but bro....Qinn is that bad IMO. Name 1 big game he ever won even in college. He had 1 good year when Weiss's offense was new to the college level. Then when teams had an offseason to watch film, I dont think he was as effective. I know your very intelligent with numbers, if you have time break down Quinn's stats pre-Weiss to his when Weiss 1st took over. Then look at this past season, see if my theory is right. Maybe I am wrong, but comparing him to Montana is a reach.

Oh, And I heard T.Smith has decreased his value to a 4th-5th rd pick. :? :-? :???:
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:54 am

Dozen wrote:This team has no more time to have for #1 draft picks sit for a year.


I don't agree.

Why the rush? THis team is going nowhere. This is partly the problem with the org (and fans) since they came back. Everyone wants everything fixed in one offseason, rather than take the time to develop players over a 2-3 year period.

Given this team is going absolutely nowhere in 2007, they sure as hell have time to let a 2007 1st round QB sit and dvelop in 2007.

I wrote it all out here:

http://www.swerbsblurbs.com/article_detail.php?id=1226

I want Russell in the worst way. Quinn, not so much.....but he would be hard to pass up. I feel the reason for a lot of the negativity with him stems from people flat out hating ND (like me). I'm trying to look past that bias. :P :-P :razz:
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Unread postby Dozen » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:02 pm

Taking Quinn will set them back 3-4 years. Savage will not do that. Russel could play right now with his legs and size being a huge attribute. Kinda like Vince Young. Either Peterson or Russel for me, if not get out of the top 5 IMO.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:37 pm

Dozen wrote:Taking Quinn will set them back 3-4 years. Savage will not do that. Russel could play right now with his legs and size being a huge attribute. Kinda like Vince Young. Either Peterson or Russel for me, if not get out of the top 5 IMO.


If they draft Russell, I implore them to sit him for the year while they address the offensive line and he learns from the sideline. This is the way you do it. I can see maybe playing him in the final handfull of games, but he should see the field the first 8-10 weeks at least.
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Unread postby Guest » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:50 pm

I think Calvin Johnson by far is the best player in this draft
If he's there, take him
I know we need an OL but he is way too good to pass up.
If he is gone, which he should be, take Thomas
The OL is garbage and has to be addressed now
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Unread postby Dozen » Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:26 pm

Taking Quinn will set them back 3-4 years. Savage will not do that. Russel could play right now with his legs and size being a huge attribute. Kinda like Vince Young. Either Peterson or Russel for me, if not get out of the top 5 IMO.

If they draft Russell, I implore them to sit him for the year while they address the offensive line and he learns from the sideline. This is the way you do it. I can see maybe playing him in the final handfull of games, but he should see the field the first 8-10 weeks at least.


Every situation is completly different. Case in point, Jeff Fisher. Look at the different ways he broke in McNair and Young. But you still have not answered how you are holding Crennel responsible for next year, when you would be basicly robbing him of a starter. Go get Peterson, maybe Russel or get out of the top 5.........Quinn is overated and Thomas isnt gonna be a stud LT.
Last edited by Dozen on Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:53 pm

Crennel is not part of the equation. In my view, there is no reason he should be here still. So, I don't care what he is robbed of in 2007 on the field.

This team, and the fans, need to take a step back and take a much more patient approach with getting this team back on track. I want a new coach....but I also want them to invest the time to make the right draft choices. But, I also don't want quick fixes in FA. We do that every year. The fans will be calling for Joe Average FA all offseason, which I hope we stay away from. Screw that.

Unless we are going to go out and sign top quality players, I don't want them in FA. Instead, let the young players play that they drafted the last two years, and maybe mix some of the 2007 draft picks in (sans the 1st Rd QB). Get this team ready to make the next step in 2008.
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Unread postby Dozen » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:18 pm

If you honestly Savage will draft a QB to sit for a year (basicly taking a starter away from Crennel) and then fire him, your "view" is distorted. I dont see Savage doing that.
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Unread postby sandlot33 » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:18 pm

I've been waiting to god damn long to sit back and take a patient approach...there was nothing better than waking up Sunday morning and knowing the Browns were on and now its a god damn joke...we need to do something now with this team and not wait....I'M SICK OF WAITING IN CLEVELAND[/quote]
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:08 pm

Dozen wrote:If you honestly Savage will draft a QB to sit for a year (basicly taking a starter away from Crennel) and then fire him, your "view" is distorted. I dont see Savage doing that.


If....IF Savage drafts a QB with the first pick, this is exactly what will happen. No point in ruining a QB by throwing him to the wolves right away and without having a good line in place. Resist the temptation. If a QB is taken in the 1st round, he has to sit most of the year. Since the line will still be a WIP, I'd only advocate playing him possibly the last few weeks of the season to get his feet wet.

Other than that, if they take Thomas or AP, I expect those two to play right away. But, if they DO take a QB, I'll be begging them to sit him.
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Unread postby furls » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:45 pm

Why we should not draft the following skill positions:

RB: Why bother. With the Browns O-line it is clear that Walter Payton, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, or (insert hall of famer here) would struggle to break 4 yards per carry. We have seen the Browns (and the NFL in general's) track record with building an O-line in free agency. Peterson is brittle and with this O-line he runs the risk of being destroyed in the backfield, but what the hell, another skill position first round pick out with a torn ACL would be about par for the course. At least we would get another top ten first round pick in the 2008 draft to spend on another skill position player.

WR: Well, if the Browns draft another WR in the top 6 of the NFL draft (3 in the last 4 years) they will run the risk of being the Lions (and we all see how well those personnel decisions work out). Without a viable QB, a wide receiver is worthless, so unless Calvin Johnson can throw the ball really high to himself (like I used to in the front yard) and then catch it and run for a gain, that would be a really stupid pick.

QB: The Browns have no offensive line. Any quarterback that they put in to play will be killed unless he can run like Cribbs or Vick. Don't give me this crap about drafting a kid to come in and sit on the bench for a year. That is no longer necessary. In the past, there was a super significant adjustment between the pro and college game, an adjustment that over the past five years or so has been seriously diminished. Is there an adjustment period? Yes, absolutely, but players no longer require a year on the sideline to learn. Besides, after Frye sucks in the first four games the fan pressure to see the new first round QB will be so intense that the management will buckle, leading us back to the part about QBs being killed behind crappy lines.

Do the boring thing, draft for the O-line. The Browns will not win a bunch of new fans for it, but if the line holds up in 2007; they may win back some of the fans that are moving away. No one ever wants to spend the first round pick on a guy that is not going to make plays but will prevent the opposition from making them. If you are still not sold on the importance of a good LT, just rewatch that Panthers game where J. Peppers singlehandedly shut down the Browns.

I doubt highly if Thomas will be another Pace, Boselli, or Ogden. Those guys are/were perenial pro-bowlers. Pace is the kind of lineman that comes around once a GENERATION so any comparison to him is unfair. Saying that you would not draft Thomas that high unless he graded out like Pace is like saying you wouldn't draft a QB unless he graded out like John Elway, a RB unless he graded out like Barry Sanders, or a WR unless he graded out like Tim Brown.

Look down the drafts for the last 20 years. They are littered with busts at every position. I am sure that lots of teams would redo them if they could, but the best a team can do is take the best player available to fill the worst hole on their team. Thomas will be there for the Browns and LT is clearly the biggest hole on that team.
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Unread postby pup » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:06 am

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Unread postby Dozen » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:17 pm

I have no problem with drafting OL, Joe Thomas isnt a top 5 pick, thats all Im saying.
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Unread postby furls » Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:59 pm

You say that with such confidence. I would say that is probably true for a team with a fairly solid O-line, but for this team, he is a #1 overall pick.
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Unread postby Dozen » Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:36 pm

The only way Savage drafts Thomas is if he trades down. Look at his philosophy, the Best Player Available. There is no way he's taken with the 3-4 pick. On a side note. I've read the Lions are going to select Thomas with the 2nd pick. Which either makes total sense or no sense at all. Is Millen actually trying to throw up a smokescreen and trade down? That would mean he is actually trying to play GM. Or he really is that stupid? I still think he wants Calvin Johnson. :lol:
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Unread postby pup » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:00 pm

Everyone that does not believe Thomas is a top 5 pick, please explain what is wrong with him.
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Unread postby furls » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:00 pm

Of course Millen wants Johnson, he is addicted to WRs. If I were Johnson, and I were drafted by the Lions, I would do what Eli Manning did to get traded.

You cannot trade down to get Thomas. He will be gone in the top 5. Therefore, by your estimation, the Browns will again put off the O-line in favor of a RB, WR, or QB. This is a putrid draft for skill position players and no other pick, aside from the O-line or D-line makes sense and there are NO players worthy of a top 5 on the defensive side this year.
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Unread postby Dozen » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:37 pm

Everyone that does not believe Thomas is a top 5 pick, please explain what is wrong with him.



I think he is prone to getting beat on his side and sometimes overwhelmed straight up by power rushers.
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