Winslow traded to Tampa Bay for undisclosed picks

[rk]

He is a Top 5 TE because he, his daddy and his agent say so ?

Talent wise he is one of the two best receiving TEs in the league. For a scheme that uses a TE who can play off the line, like the Browns employed the last two years, his value is pretty high.

Physically he's around 43 years old.

Mentally he's an adolescent newt.

[osucrazy18]

Its the price for a top 5 TE, that is why. Shockey fetched a 2nd and 5th. I wouldnt trade Winslow for Shockey. Therefore I value Winslow more than Shockey he should fetch more

Reasonable. But I don't remember any TEs traded for first-round picks, help me out here.

More to the point, the top five TEs in terms of receiving yards are Gonzalez, Witten, Daniels, Cooley, and Dallas Clark. Winslow doesn't block particularly well. What makes him a Top 5 TE?

He is a Top 5 TE because he, his daddy and his agent say so ?

No he is an elite (I say top 5) because of his performance in 2006 where he lead the league in receptions by TE's and in 2007 when he had a top 3 year. Just because he got staph last year from the Browns effed up facility and had to deal with 2 Qb's and our offensive clusterflip doesnt take away from that fact that he is still elite. At least for a few more years.

ummmmmmmm amen??

[Steve Buffum]

He is a Top 5 TE because he, his daddy and his agent say so ?

Talent wise he is one of the two best receiving TEs in the league. For a scheme that uses a TE who can play off the line, like the Browns employed the last two years, his value is pretty high.

Physically he's around 43 years old.

Mentally he's an adolescent newt.

+1.7

[Mr. MacPhisto]

If we got a 2nd and a 5th then I'm fine with that.

Now what do the Bucs have left to give us for DA since they've been the name most related to him.

[bw]

He is a Top 5 TE because he, his daddy and his agent say so ?

Talent wise he is one of the two best receiving TEs in the league. For a scheme that uses a TE who can play off the line, like the Browns employed the last two years, his value is pretty high.

Physically he's around 43 years old.

Mentally he's an adolescent newt.

He doesn't like to lose. I dare say there are several folks on this very board that you wouldn't want near a recording device right after a tough loss by the Browns.

[peeker643]

Actually Shockey is known to be a very good blocking TE. His problem was his mouth, his attitude, his immaturity and his knack of dropping TD passes.

Yogi has it right.

Shockey is a beast in the running game and is/was regarded as one of the best blocking TEs in the game.

We talked about this on the show Wednesday night and Swerb brought up a very good point: all the push-off penalties on Winslow can be attributed to either refs watching his hands or the fact he wasn't getting the same amount of separation without pushing off.

[rk]

If we got a 2nd and a 5th then I'm fine with that.

Don't hold your breath. They would have already announced it.

I'm putting odds on a 3rd and a conditional '10 3rd through 5th.

Now what do the Bucs have left to give us for DA since they've been the name most related to him.

You misspelled 'Jets'.

[DrPoove]

If we got a 2nd and a 5th then I'm fine with that.

First time for everything, I agree with Mac.

Anyone who thinks you were going to get a 1st Rounder or anything more than and 2nd/5th combo (if not less) for K2 is hanging out at frat parties with Ratbird loving Michael Phelps.

The guy has talent but has 40 year old knees, is immature and known to be a me first guy/distraction in the locker room.

Personally, I think he was more of a locker room problem that Braylon Scrissors-hands.

[Toxicadam]

The lastest ESPN Radio report said "for an undisclosed draft PICK."

[rk]

The lastest ESPN Radio report said "for an undisclosed draft PICK."

And our general manager said 'picks'.

[noles1]

Actually Shockey is known to be a very good blocking TE. His problem was his mouth, his attitude, his immaturity and his knack of dropping TD passes.

Yogi has it right.

Shockey is a beast in the running game and is/was regarded as one of the best blocking TEs in the game.

We talked about this on the show Wednesday night and Swerb brought up a very good point: all the push-off penalties on Winslow can be attributed to either refs watching his hands or the fact he wasn't getting the same amount of separation without pushing off.

Boom. Swerb nailed it. It's EXACTLY why you sell now before he has no value. I don't mind the move AT ALL. Now we have to move DA & the more I give it thought Rogers. (like another poster recommended) Hopefully Kokinis put in a call to Tennessee already...

Like previously stated, the good thing is we aren't hearing but a small peep...

[DrPoove]

[quote="noles1"]Boom. Swerb nailed it. It's EXACTLY why you sell now before he has no value. I don't mind the move AT ALL. Now we have to move DA & the more I give it thought Rogers. (like another poster recommended) Hopefully Kokinis put in a call to Tennessee already...quote]
What are you going to do about Rogers ridiculous cap penalty then?

[pup]

Boom. Swerb nailed it. It's EXACTLY why you sell now before he has no value. I don't mind the move AT ALL. Now we have to move DA & the more I give it thought Rogers. (like another poster recommended) Hopefully Kokinis put in a call to Tennessee already...quote]
What are you going to do about Rogers ridiculous cap penalty then?

Eat it all.

[Ziner]

Just a thought, but think we gave Winslow and 36 for the 19?

Edit: that would value Winslow as a low 2nd... maybe this and a 6th or something... just spinning the wheels, why dont they just release it.

[justmebd]

Winslow was good when he was on the field, but he spent too much time off of it, and as someone else pointed out, his knees aren't getting any younger or healtheir. Whatever we get for him is probably a bargain as I don't see him lasting more than another 2 years.

I could be wrong, but there it is.

Still, I hope we got a 2nd and a 5th for him.

[DrPoove]

Just a thought, but think we gave Winslow and 36 for the 19?

Edit: that would value Winslow as a low 2nd... maybe this and a 6th or something... just spinning the wheels, why dont they just release it.

Then that is stupid, no offense. That scenario gains us ZERO additional picks.

[4thQtrGlory]

Winslow, Sean Jones, and Leigh Bodden.....all 3 were my favorite Browns, all 3 were traded/let go. If i said Derek Anderson was my favorite, would they trade him too?

[Ziner]

Just a thought, but think we gave Winslow and 36 for the 19?

Edit: that would value Winslow as a low 2nd... maybe this and a 6th or something... just spinning the wheels, why dont they just release it.

Then that is stupid, no offense. That scenario gains us ZERO additional picks.

I know, I was just throwing it out there. But if they think Heiden and Rucker can be Winslow or better than why not upgrade your pick. I'm just throwing it out there. If they would just release it then I wouldnt have to do this

[DrPoove]

Boom. Swerb nailed it. It's EXACTLY why you sell now before he has no value. I don't mind the move AT ALL. Now we have to move DA & the more I give it thought Rogers. (like another poster recommended) Hopefully Kokinis put in a call to Tennessee already...

What are you going to do about Rogers ridiculous cap penalty then?

Eat it all.

You think it's that important to cut the cord, Pup?

[noles1]

Agree. Eat it all.

Think of them as sunk costs for the draft picks acquired, just no personnel yet. Seriously, where are we going next year anyway? The situation with Big Baby isn't going to magically get better. Why not bite the bullet now rather than next year when hopefully we are looking to turn things around...

[Ziner]

Agree. Eat it all.

Think of them as sunk costs for the draft picks acquired, just no personnel yet. Seriously, where are we going next year anyway? The situation with Big Baby isn't going to magically get better. Why not bite the bullet now rather than next year when hopefully we are looking to turn things around...

If we get a Jared Allen package I'd do it in a second

[rbm0183]

Man, when I first read about this it actually made me sick to my stomach. Like hime or not, he's one of the few truly talented players on the team. That being said, he's major pain in the neck and wasn't going to get a new deal, so he would have continued being a pain in the neck.

And all the best to K2 in Tampa. That franchise is looking a little screwed up too. Does anyone really think 31 year old Raheem Morris will be able to control Soulja? And who's going to be throwing to him, Luke McCown?

Why do they not announce the draft picks? I guess because they don't want the fans to know how low they are? Maybe they have another move they're trying to make that they're hoping will divert the fans' attention so that they can announce which picks they got quietly?

[pup]

Boom. Swerb nailed it. It's EXACTLY why you sell now before he has no value. I don't mind the move AT ALL. Now we have to move DA & the more I give it thought Rogers. (like another poster recommended) Hopefully Kokinis put in a call to Tennessee already...

What are you going to do about Rogers ridiculous cap penalty then?

Eat it all.

You think it's that important to cut the cord, Pup?

Wasn't advocating the move. Just answering the question.

We better get one hell of a haul to move him and eat that cash.

A much better haul than we got for the other football player that WAS on the team.

People can bitch about him like there is no tomorrow. But aside from the motorcycle accident (which is a big deal not trying to downplay it), where have his injuries come from?

Trying to recover an onsides kick down 2 scores with under a minute left.
Having a surgery to clean up some stuff, and having it turn into staph.

Then the nerve of him. His blowups? Bitching at the offensvie line for not protecting his quarterback. Then defending the crazy notion that Phil allowed to gain steam, that he had an STD instead of staph. What a dick.

You guys can be happy. But he was one of the top 3 players on this team. And we are to be excited about replacing him with Heiden. Who, by the way, is the age you all like to blast on Kellen for being like. And Rucker, who can't catch a cold thus far. Boy, but we might get the 50th pick for him too! Yippee! And maybe the 130th to boot. Boy, we sure snookered them stupid Bucs.

Anyone take this bet...Pro Bowl appearances for Winslow versus any Browns TE for the rest of Kellen's career?

[justmebd]

That's assuming Winslow can stay healthy enough to be on the field long enough to qualify for a Pro Bowl appearance.

I'm not being the least bit sarcastic when I say we got the best out of him. He's been too injured too long to keep competing at the level he has been. He's going to break down.

But again, I could be wrong.

[Crash Davis]

Anyone know how this effects our salary cap?

Nothing official yet but by my calculations the move will free up some $3.5 million in new cap space for this year.

[DrPoove]

Boom. Swerb nailed it. It's EXACTLY why you sell now before he has no value. I don't mind the move AT ALL. Now we have to move DA & the more I give it thought Rogers. (like another poster recommended) Hopefully Kokinis put in a call to Tennessee already...

What are you going to do about Rogers ridiculous cap penalty then?

Eat it all.

You think it's that important to cut the cord, Pup?

Wasn't advocating the move. Just answering the question.

We better get one hell of a haul to move him and eat that cash.

A much better haul than we got for the other football player that WAS on the team.

People can bitch about him like there is no tomorrow. But aside from the motorcycle accident (which is a big deal not trying to downplay it), where have his injuries come from?

Trying to recover an onsides kick down 2 scores with under a minute left.
Having a surgery to clean up some stuff, and having it turn into staph.

Then the nerve of him. His blowups? Bitching at the offensvie line for not protecting his quarterback. Then defending the crazy notion that Phil allowed to gain steam, that he had an STD instead of staph. What a dick.

You guys can be happy. But he was one of the top 3 players on this team. And we are to be excited about replacing him with Heiden. Who, by the way, is the age you all like to blast on Kellen for being like. And Rucker, who can't catch a cold thus far. Boy, but we might get the 50th pick for him too! Yippee! And maybe the 130th to boot. Boy, we sure snookered them stupid Bucs.

Anyone take this bet...Pro Bowl appearances for Winslow versus any Browns TE for the rest of Kellen's career?

I hear ya.

My point was if you do trade him one can't reasonably think you would get more and a 2 and a 5 for him.

[Lubber]

Anyone take this bet...Pro Bowl appearances for Winslow versus any Browns TE for the rest of Kellen's career?

That is not really a fair bet as we are not trading K2 for out TEs. A more fair bet would be K2's Pro Bowls versus the 2nd and 6th round picks we will be getting. The way I see it, not much of a downgrade in the TE department (less flash, but more dependable and less of a cancer in lockerroom), and we get two draft picks.

[peeker643]

Boom. Swerb nailed it. It's EXACTLY why you sell now before he has no value. I don't mind the move AT ALL. Now we have to move DA & the more I give it thought Rogers. (like another poster recommended) Hopefully Kokinis put in a call to Tennessee already...

What are you going to do about Rogers ridiculous cap penalty then?

Eat it all.

You think it's that important to cut the cord, Pup?

Wasn't advocating the move. Just answering the question.

We better get one hell of a haul to move him and eat that cash.

A much better haul than we got for the other football player that WAS on the team.

People can bitch about him like there is no tomorrow. But aside from the motorcycle accident (which is a big deal not trying to downplay it), where have his injuries come from?

Trying to recover an onsides kick down 2 scores with under a minute left.
Having a surgery to clean up some stuff, and having it turn into staph.

Then the nerve of him. His blowups? Bitching at the offensvie line for not protecting his quarterback. Then defending the crazy notion that Phil allowed to gain steam, that he had an STD instead of staph. What a dick.

You guys can be happy. But he was one of the top 3 players on this team. And we are to be excited about replacing him with Heiden. Who, by the way, is the age you all like to blast on Kellen for being like. And Rucker, who can't catch a cold thus far. Boy, but we might get the 50th pick for him too! Yippee! And maybe the 130th to boot. Boy, we sure snookered them stupid Bucs.

Anyone take this bet...Pro Bowl appearances for Winslow versus any Browns TE for the rest of Kellen's career?

I think this tells you where the new guys feel this team is from a competetitive standpoint. You don't trade that talent if you're close.

I think it's a concession to the fact they're not just a draft and free agency period away and by the time they are ready to compete Dorian Gray will have nothing on KW2. At which time you'd get nothing for him and have nothing left of him you can use.

The talent is not arguable. When healthy he is a fine TE/WR. This smells of that familiar 'rebuild' odor.

[MacGregor78]

Look ma, no leaks. Didn't see that one coming did we ?

Actually I read last week that he was being offered in trades for second and 3rd round pick or a second round pick and a player

[Steve Buffum]

A much better haul than we got for the other football player that WAS on the team.

We traded Phil Dawson?!?!

[ProgRocker]

I wonder if the picks are conditional based on signing a new contract. Could KW's agent be negotiating now with the pick(s?) being contingent on whatever deal is cut?

I'm not surprised because in the spat with Savage over the staph infection KW also insulted Lerner. You don't do that and expect to play - and I still think it was an attempt to get out of the contract to make one more killing before his inevitable early retirement.

I'm a little bummed only because I was hoping we could snooker the Bucs out of the 19 for DA. Guess we'll have to try someone else for him ...

Anyway, yeah, 2/5 and I'm down with it.

[DrPoove]

A much better haul than we got for the other football player that WAS on the team.

We traded Phil Dawson?!?!

NOT FUNNY!

You almost gave me a heart attack.

[onlyindreams]

Anyone take this bet...Pro Bowl appearances for Winslow versus any Browns TE for the rest of Kellen's career?

That is not really a fair bet as we are not trading K2 for out TEs. A more fair bet would be K2's Pro Bowls versus the 2nd and 6th round picks we will be getting. The way I see it, not much of a downgrade in the TE department (less flash, but more dependable and less of a cancer in lockerroom), and we get two draft picks.

Who cares about Pro Bowl appearances, I just want wins! We had 1 winning season out of 5 with Kellen. He only appeared in 44 of 80 games in that time. He's not the athlete he was before the injuries and he wanted a huge contract extension.

I really hope our starting TE next year can block, because that could be the biggest improvement we could make in the running game.

[General]

I know that the moist, humid environment of South Florida has to be overrun with various staph infections just waiting for a willing host.

[Crash Davis]

If they didn't just trade for K2 I would have to wonder if Phil Savage is the new GM in Tampa giving away all their draft picks. ESPN radio says the Bucs are in talks with the Raiders for RB Michael Bush for a 3rd or 4th round pick so maybe we are getting at least a 2nd for K2

[ProgRocker]

I'm reading from a few other blogs that a Tampa Bay sports station is claiming 3/7, which if true is disappointing (but maybe that's what he was worth) ...

[osucrazy18]

its gotta be a 2nd or maybe a 3rd next year and 4th this year

the latter i would be deeply saddended by

[DrPoove]

I'm reading from a few other blogs that a Tampa Bay sports station is claiming 3/7, which if true is disappointing (but maybe that's what he was worth) ...

A Travis Wilson / Syndric Steptoe 3/7 combo doesn't excite you?

[ProgRocker]

Terry Pluto just posted that he thinks it's a 2nd rounder this year and a 2010 pick of some sort.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/ind ... _kell.html

Two 2nds, a 1st (with maybe a trade-down for a 3rd rounder?) and possible deals for DA and Rogers? Looking decent so long as ManKok can draft ...

[hornet84]

It looks like ManKok has your attention. It only took one trade to get everyone talking Browns again. I don't know how I feel about this. I think this franchise needs as many draft picks as it can compile. The quick fix is not the answer here. There is some talent , but not enough to challenge next year. KW2 is just another example of what might have been in Cleveland sports history. He was very good , but he could have been so much more.

[pup]

From Pluto's article linked above:

But it is significant that the new front office took the same approach that Savage had planned -- move Winslow for draft picks and move on without him. For both sides, it's for the best.

The last thing this front office needs to do is whatever the last front office was going to do.

[Mr. MacPhisto]

I'm reading from a few other blogs that a Tampa Bay sports station is claiming 3/7, which if true is disappointing (but maybe that's what he was worth) ...

Haven't been listening. If it's 620 claiming that then it's solid. They are the flagship Bucs station and have tons of connections. 1040 or 1010 are far less credible.

[noles1]

3/7 from Tampa with their draft position would be surprising and somewhat disappointed. Still I'd do the deal.

Have to wonder though what about a team like Phila. Wouldn't he fit in pretty nicely there. (although they don't necessarily "pay up" when it comes to re-negotiations)

[leadpipe]

He's a good slot receiver.

With a serious injury history.

And an asshole.

And is going to demand more than he's worth next contract.

To Pup's point of him being one of the Browns best players, I would agree. But being one of the Browns best players isn't getting you a high draft pick. The other stuff determines that.

Bottom line, the Browns, whether we want to admit it or not, are tearing things down to make a better future - not to be done by next season. Kellen winslow in 3 years....

Again, I would ask, what would YOU give up for him?

[consigliere]

Wasn't advocating the move. Just answering the question.

We better get one hell of a haul to move him and eat that cash.

A much better haul than we got for the other football player that WAS on the team.

People can bitch about him like there is no tomorrow. But aside from the motorcycle accident (which is a big deal not trying to downplay it), where have his injuries come from?

Trying to recover an onsides kick down 2 scores with under a minute left.
Having a surgery to clean up some stuff, and having it turn into staph.

Then the nerve of him. His blowups? Bitching at the offensvie line for not protecting his quarterback. Then defending the crazy notion that Phil allowed to gain steam, that he had an STD instead of staph. What a dick.

You guys can be happy. But he was one of the top 3 players on this team. And we are to be excited about replacing him with Heiden. Who, by the way, is the age you all like to blast on Kellen for being like. And Rucker, who can't catch a cold thus far. Boy, but we might get the 50th pick for him too! Yippee! And maybe the 130th to boot. Boy, we sure snookered them stupid Bucs.

Anyone take this bet...Pro Bowl appearances for Winslow versus any Browns TE for the rest of Kellen's career?

+100

That was beautiful man.

[noles1]

By the end of next year I expect Winslow to be a mirror of 30+ yr. old LJ Smith.

He'll be 26 then.

[Guest]

In the story on PD, they had this poll:

1. I'm glad he's gone, for the team's sake.
2. I like him, but he deserves a team that will appreciate him.
3. Good idea, but a bad trade -- they should have gotten more for him.
4. The Browns will regret losing him -- or at least their fans will.

Who writes this shit? Uh, how about none of the above?

1. I'm not glad he's gone, he was a good player. But trading him is completely understandable. Sell high, before he's broken, and it has already been proven that his production can be adequately replaced by those on the existing roster.

2. He deserves a team that appreciates him? Who wrote that one, Shaun Rogers?

3. They should have gotten more for him? How can you possibly say, since no one knows what they got for him yet?

4. The Browns and their fans will regret losing him? Some will - those fans who root more for individual players than the team. Kellen Winslow does not make or break a team.

In the end, it was probably a good move, since I don't think he's got but a few years left. A 2nd and another pick would be be about right.

The PD has really started to go downhill in their Browns coverage.

[noles1]

Agree Hiko. Shitty poll there.

Looking at some Florida sites I'm seeing a 3rd and 5th with mention of a conditional for next year. (likely performance-based)

[Ziner]

Looking at some Florida sites I'm seeing a 3rd and 5th with mention of a conditional for next year. (likely performance-based)

I honestly dont see any circumstance that we take less than what the Saints got. Even if we do get what the Saints got (2nd and 5th) it is still a worse deal because of draft position. I just cant imagine we took a 3rd and 5th.

[Guest]

Per Don Banks, CNNSI:

Sources say the Browns got a second-round pick this year and a fifth-rounder in 2010 from Tampa Bay in exchange for tight end Kellen Winslow, Cleveland's first-round pick in '04. That strikes me as a great deal for the Browns, to get that much for a player they weren't very enamored with.

Cleveland's new regime of head coach Eric Mangini and general manager George Kokinis wanted to both increase Cleveland's draft firepower this year, and to weed out a potential problem player who was both angling for a new contract and hasn't always been on the same page as Browns management. And yes, that's an understatement.

Browns owner Randy Lerner is believed to have been in favor of retaining Winslow, but he went along with the wishes of his new front office team. The Browns now have five draft picks this year: a first, two seconds, a fourth and a sixth.