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The Mangina Power Structure

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The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby swerb » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:19 am

Starting to look more and more like Mangini. Peter King reports at halftime of Ind/SD that The Mangenius is "the leader in the clubhouse, by far" and that Randy Jammies has a raging hard on for the cat.

Im not over agnostic about Mangina. You look at the coaches that have won SB's recently, almost all of em (Belichick, Coughlin, Dungy, Gruden, Vermiel) all did it in their second gigs. Some things to be concerned about with Mangini (fact Lerner likes him so much), but there is also a lot to like. The upside potential is strong.

But here's what scares the shit out of me ..

Mangina

GM - George "Latest no name too young glorified scout from Baltimore" Kokinis
OC - Bill Callahan, Manginis OL/assistant HC in NY
DC - Fat Romeo
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Chris » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:43 am

/facepalm

If this happens I quit.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Guest » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:45 am

All I know is that suddenly Bruce Arians is supposedly a genius in PIT.

With the right leadership, even blind hacks can somewhat succeed.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Ziner » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:50 am

The only thing I dont get is why Randy doesnt just sell. The Browns seems to be a burden for him. He doesnt go to games, doesnt live here, doesnt participate in the day to day operations he doesnt need the money etc. Just sell the team. All I can think of is he thinks his dad would want him to keep the team, and while he may have, if his heart isnt in it, that just isnt fair.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:52 am

Hiko wrote:All I know is that suddenly Bruce Arians is supposedly a genius in PIT.

With the right leadership, even blind hacks can somewhat succeed.


Everyone in Shittsburgh wants his head right now.

Ugh...Bend over yet again Browns fans, this is going to be a painful 2-3 years, if this happens.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:55 am

Typical Browns fans are never happy. Sure have someone fail before he is even A.) Hired B.) Given a chance.

Also I think Mangini brings his assistants from NY with him so

Brian Shottenhiemer - OC/AHC
Callahan - OL Coach
Sutton - DC
Romeo - DL or Special Assistant

The rumors of Romeo staying on where if McDaniels was HC then Romeo would probably stay on as DC.

And finally Swerb Thomas Dimitroff up until this past year was the director of college scouting for the NE Patriots. The GM is really only supposed to get the players then disappear until the draft comes around.

Again if you can evaluate talent you are going to be a decent GM just as long as you don't have full control (this is where Phil went wrong).
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby OrangeElf » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:59 am

BooyaCS wrote:Typical Browns fans are never happy. Sure have someone fail before he is even A.) Hired B.) Given a chance.

Also I think Mangini brings his assistants from NY with him so

Brian Shottenhiemer - OC/AHC
Callahan - OL Coach
Sutton - DC
Romeo - DL or Special Assistant

The rumors of Romeo staying on where if McDaniels was HC then Romeo would probably stay on as DC.

And finally Swerb Thomas Dimitroff up until this past year was the director of college scouting for the NE Patriots. The GM is really only supposed to get the players then disappear until the draft comes around.

Again if you can evaluate talent you are going to be a decent GM just as long as you don't have full control (this is where Phil went wrong).


Brian Schottenheimer is under contract from the Jets. He's either going to be the next Jets head coach if Spags doesn't get the gig or he's going to be retained by the Jets per Tannanbum in NY. He would have to get a promotion to be allowed to leave NY.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:01 am

Callahan is the Assistant HC in NY. Wouldn't tagging Shottenhiemer as the AHC technically be a promotion?
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby swerb » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:04 am

BooyaCS wrote:Typical Browns fans are never happy. Sure have someone fail before he is even A.) Hired B.) Given a chance.

Also I think Mangini brings his assistants from NY with him so

Brian Shottenhiemer - OC/AHC
Callahan - OL Coach
Sutton - DC
Romeo - DL or Special Assistant

The rumors of Romeo staying on where if McDaniels was HC then Romeo would probably stay on as DC.

And finally Swerb Thomas Dimitroff up until this past year was the director of college scouting for the NE Patriots. The GM is really only supposed to get the players then disappear until the draft comes around.

Again if you can evaluate talent you are going to be a decent GM just as long as you don't have full control (this is where Phil went wrong).

Kokinis, from what I've read/heard, has been the pro personnel guy for the Ravens, presiding over free agents and other pro personnel moves. Negotiated some contracts with college rooks, but never been involved in scouting them.

Gimme someone who has been there, done that, and wrote the fucking book about it. I don't need another fresh faced 38 year old with an incomplete resume running this front offive.

Not when guys like Pioli, Reese, Acorsi, and McKay are out there.

Lerner lets Mangina jedi mind trick him into bringing all his no name drinking buddies in here ... I'll freak.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby OrangeElf » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:05 am

BooyaCS wrote:Callahan is the Assistant HC in NY. Wouldn't tagging Shottenhiemer as the AHC technically be a promotion?


Yes. I thought about that but I don't see the Browns doing such unless another Schottenhiemer not named Brian is the head coach and I would have no problem with that.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby papacass » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:07 am

Why the flippity-flip is Randy not hiring a guy to hire these guys? What on Earth does hiring a GM and coach independent of each other accomplish? Hire Parcells, McKay, ANYONE qualified to oversee the football operations and let him hire the GM, who then hires the coach. It's called creating a chain of accountability.

Instead it's going to be another grand oil/water experiment in which Lerner mashes a HC and GM togther and assumes it will all work out because their careers were simultaneously spawned from the loins of the Bill Belichick regime here in the early '90s.

I agree with what Grossi wrote this evening: Jammies is utterly convinced that if he keeps trying to build bridges between the present and the Belichick teams of the early '90s, he'll somehow tap the mojo of the Pats by extension.

Get over it, Randy. You haven't had an original idea since becoming owner of this team. You don't know football, you only know what others tell you about football. And apparently you're listening to the wrong people. Mangini/Kokinis will be Savage/Crennel Part 2, except the dominant personality will be on the sideline instead of in the front office. Same shit, different day, and it will all end with another 4-12 season in 2012.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby StewieG » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:11 am

Papa Cass wrote:Why the flippity-flip is Randy not hiring a guy to hire these guys? What on Earth does hiring a GM and coach independent of each other accomplish? Hire Parcells, McKay, ANYONE qualified to oversee the football operations and let him hire the GM, who then hires the coach. It's called creating a chain of accountability.

Instead it's going to be another grand oil/water experiment in which Lerner mashes a HC and GM togther and assumes it will all work out because their careers were simultaneously spawned from the loins of the Bill Belichick regime here in the early '90s.

I agree with what Grossi wrote this evening: Jammies is utterly convinced that if he keeps trying to build bridges between the present and the Belichick teams of the early '90s, he'll somehow tap the mojo of the Pats by extension.

Get over it, Randy. You haven't had an original idea since becoming owner of this team. You don't know football, you only know what others tell you about football. And apparently you're listening to the wrong people. Mangini/Kokinis will be Savage/Crennel Part 2, except the dominant personality will be on the sideline instead of in the front office. Same shit, different day, and it will all end with another 4-12 season in 2012.


See, this is why I'm not a writer. I've been trying to figure out how to say exactly that, but I've been failing miserably at it. Thank you for putting this into words.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:14 am

So then you want Pioli to have complete control of the Cleveland Browns from everything football to all business matters as well (the extreme demands).

Reese will force DA down everyone's throats because he has a stiffy for big arm QBs.
MadThinker seems to think Accorsi is retired and done and doesn't want to come back.
McKay seems content to stay put.

So Pioli goes back to NE
Accorsi is retired
McKay is ambivalent
and Reese might want to stay as an analyst
so now Who?

TJ McCreight?

Here is the bio on Kokinis and yes he has scouted players before.
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Staff/Player_Personnel/George_Kokinis.aspx
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:15 am

So if you aren't convinced Randy can hire a GM or HC then why the hell do you think he can hire a President or Personnel guy to hire the GM or HC?

Finally why all the hate for Randy Lerner do you want Art Modell back as the owner?
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Ziner » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:16 am

BooyaCS wrote:Here is the bio on Kokinis and yes he has scouted players before.
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Staff/Player_Personnel/George_Kokinis.aspx


Yeah, bio's or resumes never stretch the truth... my resume has no truth stretches in it I swear
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby swerb » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:19 am

Lerner has more money than God. The team has talent. And the city idolizes this team, even after 3 years away followed by 10 years of rudderless suck.

Jammies can't get one of those 4 cats to take 5 million per of his MBNA money, then he's more inept than we all fear.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:20 am

So then if you think you can do a better job then why not contact Lerner for an interview? I mean what 3/4 of this board think they can do this so much easier and better than Lerner right?
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:26 am

So Pioli has a good situation in NE why leave it?
McKay didn't seem too interested before
Reese I am not sold on him and think he would be worse than Savage. Who Knows maybe he doesn't want to leave the Analyst desk
Why would Accorsi want the stress if he is happily retired?

Who says this is all about money? Pioli seems to be trying to get Kraft to let him take over for JR when Robert Kraft retires from the Team and his son takes over. McKay wants to get back into being a GM but why Cleveland and why not Denver?
Reese? Again why Cleveland and why not Denver?

So let me get this straight if you are trying to hire someone and give them an offer and they turn it down not because they got a better offer but because they think they are in a better situation then that means you suck as an Executive?

Collectively we all bitch and moan about these things. We wanted Shapiro gone, Ferry hell about 75% of people I know wanted Ferry and Brown Fired before this season. Lets just give these things a chance to work themselves out.

Of course if there is a can't miss OMG we will be in the playoffs and win the superbowl if we hire this guy then please name him?
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Ziner » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:26 am

BooyaCS wrote:So then if you think you can do a better job then why not contact Lerner for an interview? I mean what 3/4 of this board think they can do this so much easier and better than Lerner right?


got his number? I will. I certainly care more than he does.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby swerb » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:26 am

BooyaCS wrote:So then if you think you can do a better job then why not contact Lerner for an interview? I mean what 3/4 of this board think they can do this so much easier and better than Lerner right?

I think a chimpanzee could have done better than what Randy has done since taking the team over for Al.

Let's review ...

1. Gives Butch Davis ultimate power, Pete Garcia becomes the most in over his head GM in NFL history.

2. Hires John Collins as team President 3 months after he takes credit for Janet Jackson showing her titty at the Super Bowl, fires him a year later.

3. Hires Romeo, says "we knew right away we had our guy, we were all really impressed by him". Romeo goes on to become quite possibly the worst head coach in the history of professional sports.

4. Hires Phil.

Kenneth Lay and Dave Daberko exhibited better decision making.

I'd contact Lerner for an interview, but he may actually be dumb enough to take me up on it.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby OrangeElf » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:30 am

Swerb wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:So then if you think you can do a better job then why not contact Lerner for an interview? I mean what 3/4 of this board think they can do this so much easier and better than Lerner right?

I think a chimpanzee could have done better than what Randy has done since taking the team over for Al.

Let's review ...

1. Gives Butch Davis ultimate power, Pete Garcia becomes the most in over his head GM in NFL history.

2. Hires John Collins as team President 3 months after he takes credit for Janet Jackson showing her titty at the Super Bowl, fires him a year later.

3. Hires Romeo, says "we knew right away we had our guy, we were all really impressed by him". Romeo goes on to become quite possibly the worst head coach in the history of professional sports.

4. Hires Phil.

Kenneth Lay and Dave Daberko exhibited better decision making.

I'd contact Lerner for an interview, but he may actually be dumb enough to take me up on it.


The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I always knew Lerner had the look of a mad scientist.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:39 am

Lets review give a first time HC full control (Butch and Garcia) which at the time no one had issues with it. Lets not forget that was the only playoff team in the 10 years since we have been back.

Hires Collins and fires him because Collins saw through Savage and noticed Savage was a fake. The fans went to bat for Savage and Randy Listened.

Ok so you weren't on board with the Phil or Romeo hires at the time (not looking back on them now)? A vast majority of the fans wanted those 2 and even during the Collins power struggle thought Phil was doing a great job. Only this season did we find out that Collins was right.

Again Lerner is doing what he can. He is also better than Ford, Al Davis and a few other owners out there.

So your saying Randy Listens to the fans too much? Then I take it we should rehire Savage and RAC then huh? Also the insanity quotes only apply when you hire 2 FIRST TIMERS IN THEIR POSITIONS. If I remember correctly wasn't Mangini a HC before? Or Doesn't that count because he didn't win a SB so obviously he must suck.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BadBecks » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:47 am

Let's see if a "streamlined" structure in the front office to head coach leads to actually fixing the 3-4 defense and building a running game. Sadly, those were two points of conflict between Romeo and Phil that we didn't know about until the break-up. I actually have faith in this one...until proven otherwise.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby buckeye319 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:13 am

Ziner wrote:The only thing I dont get is why Randy doesnt just sell. The Browns seems to be a burden for him. He doesnt go to games, doesnt live here, doesnt participate in the day to day operations he doesnt need the money etc. Just sell the team. All I can think of is he thinks his dad would want him to keep the team, and while he may have, if his heart isnt in it, that just isnt fair.


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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Chris » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:35 am

Randy is at every Browns game. Can people please stop saying he doesn't go to the games simply because it makes your argument look better?
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby jb » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:10 am

Swerb wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:So then if you think you can do a better job then why not contact Lerner for an interview? I mean what 3/4 of this board think they can do this so much easier and better than Lerner right?

I think a chimpanzee could have done better than what Randy has done since taking the team over for Al.

Let's review ...

1. Gives Butch Davis ultimate power, Pete Garcia becomes the most in over his head GM in NFL history.

2. Hires John Collins as team President 3 months after he takes credit for Janet Jackson showing her titty at the Super Bowl, fires him a year later.

3. Hires Romeo, says "we knew right away we had our guy, we were all really impressed by him". Romeo goes on to become quite possibly the worst head coach in the history of professional sports.

4. Hires Phil.

Kenneth Lay and Dave Daberko exhibited better decision making.

I'd contact Lerner for an interview, but he may actually be dumb enough to take me up on it.


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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:34 am

A Ravens personnel guy and a Belichick disciple? Where have I heard this one before?
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby xdawg80 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:02 am

Not to judge by appearance, but if Kokinis and Mangini is what we get, we apparently will replace Opie with Marmalard.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Ziner » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:04 am

Chris wrote:Randy is at every Browns game. Can people please stop saying he doesn't go to the games simply because it makes your argument look better?


He is? never seen him on the tube with the exception of a few times. Does he go to road games? Anyone care to back this up?
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:19 am

Ziner wrote:
Chris wrote:Randy is at every Browns game. Can people please stop saying he doesn't go to the games simply because it makes your argument look better?


He is? never seen him on the tube with the exception of a few times. Does he go to road games? Anyone care to back this up?


He left the Monday night home game against the Giants (Only one of the highest profile games since the team's return) at the half to get back to his place in the Hamptons.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby DrPoove » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:45 am

Ziner wrote:
Chris wrote:Randy is at every Browns game. Can people please stop saying he doesn't go to the games simply because it makes your argument look better?


He is? never seen him on the tube with the exception of a few times. Does he go to road games? Anyone care to back this up?


He has a deal with the networks not to put him on TV.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby DrPoove » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:02 pm

BooyaCS wrote:Lets review give a first time HC full control (Butch and Garcia) which at the time no one had issues with it. Lets not forget that was the only playoff team in the 10 years since we have been back.

Hires Collins and fires him because Collins saw through Savage and noticed Savage was a fake. The fans went to bat for Savage and Randy Listened.

Ok so you weren't on board with the Phil or Romeo hires at the time (not looking back on them now)? A vast majority of the fans wanted those 2 and even during the Collins power struggle thought Phil was doing a great job. Only this season did we find out that Collins was right.

Again Lerner is doing what he can. He is also better than Ford, Al Davis and a few other owners out there.

So your saying Randy Listens to the fans too much? Then I take it we should rehire Savage and RAC then huh? Also the insanity quotes only apply when you hire 2 FIRST TIMERS IN THEIR POSITIONS. If I remember correctly wasn't Mangini a HC before? Or Doesn't that count because he didn't win a SB so obviously he must suck.


I think Swerb's point is that in any business or organization there is a hierarchy of power that is usually established. Who has what power, who reports to who, what everyone's responsibilities are, etc.

Normally when you fill this hierarchy you start at the top down and get input from the top part of the hierarchy as you fill the positions as you go down the totem pole.

So if you have a President who supervises everything he helps chose the GM who reports to him and they help chose the coach who reports to the GM, so on and so forth. Chain of command.

Why would you hire a head coach first and then let him chose the GM, who is his supervisor? It is ass backwards. We all saw how this played out in the Davis/Garcia regime.

Now many people were supportive of that regime at the time, yes, but hindsight being 20/20 and seeing how competant owners run their NFL teams this is not a winning formula.

No one is saying Randy Lerner should listen to the fans. What they are saying is that he should apply simple business practices and logic so he can build an organization that has the best chance to succeed consistantly.

I personally am willing to give Pajama Man another shot to rebuild this team but if he does not show any sort of clue on how to put an organizational hierarchy together than the chances for sustained success are slim.

If he crashes and burns on this again than he needs to sell. No questions asked. That would be four mistakes in four chances for the Lerner family and it would be time to let someone new try if you really cared about this franchise as an Owner.

Yes, he is better than the Fords, Al Davis and Mike Brown but there are 25+ more owners that he is severely worse at being an Owner than they are.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby CP » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:31 pm

Not disputing all this, but the power structure in other businesses doesn't necessarily have to be filled from the top down. For instance, if a law firm needed a bunch of new people and had several openings, the firm doesn't have to wait to sign a managing partner in order to hire a civil litigation specialist.

Just saying, there isn't a perfect way to do anything. Mangini is an experienced NFL head coach who has made mistakes and has had to do them in the New York media market.

I'm alarmed just like everyone else, but I'm not willing to concede the sky as fallen until some clouds are actually smacking me in the face.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:09 pm

Alarmed, not alarmed. Pioli or Mangini. He's moving too fast, he's fucking moving too slow. Don't want the Belichik tree, don't want the Ravens tree (Is there a Chiefs tree you humps can agree on? ;-) ;) :wink: ).

Cowher was buying a house, Winslow banged a whore and had an STD.

The track record on these board predictions is piss poor and valid information seems scarce.

I understand this is what we do and we're not going to dissect the counter trey during the offseason, but for everyone who believes their insight and opinions (and theirs alone) are the only valid insights and opinions, you might wanna check yourselves.

Rumor and innuendo is exactly that. Getting pissy with each other over it makes little sense.

Go take your kid to a movie and enjoy your day,

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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby jamesownsdet » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:33 pm

Peeker643 wrote:Alarmed, not alarmed. Pioli or Mangini. He's moving too fast, he's fucking moving too slow. Don't want the Belichik tree, don't want the Ravens tree (Is there a Chiefs tree you humps can agree on? ;-) ;) :wink: ).

Cowher was buying a house, Winslow banged a whore and had an STD.

The track record on these board predictions is piss poor and valid information seems scarce.

I understand this is what we do and we're not going to dissect the counter trey during the offseason, but for everyone who believes their insight and opinions (and theirs alone) are the only valid insights and opinions, you might wanna check yourselves.

Rumor and innuendo is exactly that. Getting pissy with each other over it makes little sense.

Go take your kid to a movie and enjoy your day,

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This is what happens when an owner fucks things up to the point that there is no cohesive organization in place. Hire a coach when you have no GM. Hire a GM when you have no President. The only thing I know for sure is this organization is a joke. Calling it an organization is a contradiction of terms. There is no organization. Nothing is organized. It's all a cluster fuck.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby ProgRocker » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:59 pm

And I remember that when the Patriots paid a draft pick to get Belichick from the Jets that everyone thought the Pats were psychotic. Ditto the Buccaneers when they did the same thing to get Chucky from the Raidahs. While everyone -- and I mean EVERYONE -- in the NFL and Brownsdom did backflips when Butch Davis took the job. Frankly, most of us were thrilled when Savage took the job four years ago.

In other words ... all of this is, in part, a crapshoot.

All we can agree on is that Savage and Romeo had to go, and they have gone, and while there are no guarantees that what happens next will be better, we know for a fact that what has happened hasn't worked and needed to change.

I'm amused and a bit exasperated by the hyperventilating that continues to occur, and it really, REALLY needs to stop for something more constructive. Like rooting against the Rats.

Which I'm about to do now, so if you'll excuse me ...
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:00 pm

ProgRocker wrote:And I remember that when the Patriots paid a draft pick to get Belichick from the Jets that everyone thought the Pats were psychotic. Ditto the Buccaneers when they did the same thing to get Chucky from the Raidahs. While everyone -- and I mean EVERYONE -- in the NFL and Brownsdom did backflips when Butch Davis took the job. Frankly, most of us were thrilled when Savage took the job four years ago.

In other words ... all of this is, in part, a crapshoot.

All we can agree on is that Savage and Romeo had to go, and they have gone, and while there are no guarantees that what happens next will be better, we know for a fact that what has happened hasn't worked and needed to change.

I'm amused and a bit exasperated by the hyperventilating that continues to occur, and it really, REALLY needs to stop for something more constructive. Like rooting against the Rats.

Which I'm about to do now, so if you'll excuse me ...

And another +1. One for Peek too.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Dozen » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:43 pm

Peeker643 wrote:Alarmed, not alarmed. Pioli or Mangini. He's moving too fast, he's fucking moving too slow. Don't want the Belichik tree, don't want the Ravens tree (Is there a Chiefs tree you humps can agree on? ;-) ;) :wink: ).

Cowher was buying a house, Winslow banged a whore and had an STD.

The track record on these board predictions is piss poor and valid information seems scarce.

I understand this is what we do and we're not going to dissect the counter trey during the offseason, but for everyone who believes their insight and opinions (and theirs alone) are the only valid insights and opinions, you might wanna check yourselves.

Rumor and innuendo is exactly that. Getting pissy with each other over it makes little sense.

Go take your kid to a movie and enjoy your day,

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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby DrPoove » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:17 pm

LOL.

Can we all agree that Donte' Stallworth must go as well?

;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:19 pm

DrPoove wrote:LOL.

Can we all agree that Donte' Stallworth must go as well?

;-) ;) :wink:


Who the hell is that?
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby DrPoove » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:26 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
DrPoove wrote:LOL.

Can we all agree that Donte' Stallworth must go as well?

;-) ;) :wink:


Who the hell is that?


+1
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Chris » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:41 pm

DrPoove wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:
DrPoove wrote:LOL.

Can we all agree that Donte' Stallworth must go as well?

;-) ;) :wink:


Who the hell is that?


+1


How many of your posts consist of just "+1" :heehee: :hide:
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby jb » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:48 pm

Chris wrote:
DrPoove wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:
DrPoove wrote:LOL.

Can we all agree that Donte' Stallworth must go as well?

;-) ;) :wink:


Who the hell is that?


+1


How many of your posts consist of just "+1" :heehee: :hide:


Well, when a poster has nothing to add... ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby DrPoove » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:34 pm

Chris wrote:How many of your posts consist of just "+1" :heehee: :hide:


Actually this was my first one. Stole it from someone else. But I did it on another thread just to appease your easily amused a$$.

;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Chris » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:41 pm

DrPoove wrote:
Chris wrote:How many of your posts consist of just "+1" :heehee: :hide:


Actually this was my first one. Stole it from someone else. But I did it on another thread just to appease your easily amused a$$.

;-) ;) :wink:


rofl Thanks
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:48 pm

You take a 7M cap hit or thereabouts for the next 3 years if you cut Stallworth. He had what 15M guarenteed and only 4 of that was paid out last season? So add his guarenteed money plus the base to come up with the cap hit. You cut Stallworth and we are in cap hell. (DA is already going to cost us at least 5M if we cut him).
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Dozen » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:00 pm

BooyaCS wrote:You take a 7M cap hit or thereabouts for the next 3 years if you cut Stallworth. He had what 15M guarenteed and only 4 of that was paid out last season? So add his guarenteed money plus the base to come up with the cap hit. You cut Stallworth and we are in cap hell. (DA is already going to cost us at least 5M if we cut him).



It wouldnt be 7 mil x 3 yrs. If he was cut today they would owe him last years base + the 10 mil he was guaranteed.

He is due a roster bonus sometime in March for 4.75 mil, no chance he's here to collect it.


The year before he signed a 6 yr 33.1 million dollar contract with the Pats and to my knowledge they arent paying any cap hits from it. The only #'s that truly matter are a signing bonus, thats the ONLY thing guaranteed in NFL contracts.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby 4thQtrGlory » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:08 pm

Dozen wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:You take a 7M cap hit or thereabouts for the next 3 years if you cut Stallworth. He had what 15M guarenteed and only 4 of that was paid out last season? So add his guarenteed money plus the base to come up with the cap hit. You cut Stallworth and we are in cap hell. (DA is already going to cost us at least 5M if we cut him).



It wouldnt be 7 mil x 3 yrs. If he was cut today they would owe him last years base + the 10 mil he was guaranteed.

He is due a roster bonus sometime in March for 4.75 mil, no chance he's here to collect it.


The year before he signed a 6 yr 33.1 million dollar contract with the Pats and to my knowledge they arent paying any cap hits from it. The only #'s that truly matter are a signing bonus, thats the ONLY thing guaranteed in NFL contracts.


Thats not too bad of a hit. JJ will hopefully be back to take the #2 slot back for one more year. So we actually will have another year to prepare in the draft and FA for WR.
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby Lubber » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:38 pm

4thQtrGlory wrote:
Dozen wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:You take a 7M cap hit or thereabouts for the next 3 years if you cut Stallworth. He had what 15M guarenteed and only 4 of that was paid out last season? So add his guarenteed money plus the base to come up with the cap hit. You cut Stallworth and we are in cap hell. (DA is already going to cost us at least 5M if we cut him).



It wouldnt be 7 mil x 3 yrs. If he was cut today they would owe him last years base + the 10 mil he was guaranteed.

He is due a roster bonus sometime in March for 4.75 mil, no chance he's here to collect it.


The year before he signed a 6 yr 33.1 million dollar contract with the Pats and to my knowledge they arent paying any cap hits from it. The only #'s that truly matter are a signing bonus, thats the ONLY thing guaranteed in NFL contracts.


Thats not too bad of a hit. JJ will hopefully be back to take the #2 slot back for one more year. So we actually will have another year to prepare in the draft and FA for WR.

Wishful thinking... JJ is done
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Re: The Mangina Power Structure

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:59 pm

Depends on when you cut Stallworth. Also you don't pay a cap hit it is just a number subtracted from the cap (ie like hiding money you can also Lose money like this as well).

Stallworth might not be around to collect his roster bonus if that is the case then we take the cap hit this year. That means the 4.25M + base this season and his base next year (plus any guarenteed money).

Just like if we cut DA before June then we take the cap hit this year on his 5M and his base salary (which is about 1.1 M).

Now if we cut both of them after June 1 we take the cap hit next year only on their base salary though. This season we take the cap hit on the guaranteed money.

I say keep Stallworth for 1 more year. If he sucks then he would be out of guaranteed money and then you can cut him only taking a 1.1M cap hit.

That is why the June 1 cut date is important because it puts the money on the next season's cap number. So if 2010 is an uncapped year then you might as well cut both DA and Stallworth on June 1 to put their cap number on the uncapped year of 2010.
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