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The Argument FOR Tressel/Troy Smith To The Browns

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The Argument FOR Tressel/Troy Smith To The Browns

Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:37 am

Let me start by saying that I pray to god this does not happen. I want The Sweater Vest to stay in Columbus, continuing to ensure that I have happiness and joy on one day of the weekend for many years going forward.

However, saw this post on another board, and it freaked me out a little. Someone calm me down and tell me this will never happen.

http://mb26.scout.com/fbrownsinsiderfrm ... 8569.topic

Before telling me that Tressel would NEVER leave the comfy football-factory down I 75, consider this:

1. With a second national championship in his pocket, he might look to the ultimate challenge: resurrecting the NFL's grandest vintage team to its former glory. Being an Ohio guy, he grew up idolizing Paul Brown. If he could pull this off, he'd virtually be doing what NOBODY has ever done before. Win multiple college championships, and then turn around the NFL's worst team. Jim Tressel's name would go into the record books right next to Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry.

2. Tressel himself has NOT denied that he's jumping ship.

3.The Troy Smith to Cleveland is a no-brainer on several levels.

A. He's from cleveland
B. His stock is rising...first a projected third round pick, then mid second, then late first, and currently to the mid first round or so.
C. Cleveland desperately needs a quarterback who is--poised, mobile, accurate, and ready to play now in a pro set offense.

4. Randy Lerners DESPERATELY needs to regain the confidence of the fans and to inject some karma into the offense. And a local boy with a Heisman trophy under his belt is the exact guy to do it.

5. With Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow being wasted, bringing in Smith and Tressel (who's known as a brilliant play caller) might bring those two guys back on the same page and convince them that we're trying to get better.

6. Simply put, Tressel, Smith prevent Randy Lerner from a fan revolt and a loss of millions in season ticket sales.

7. Smith is a damn good quarterback. Nearly Michael Vick type talent without the attitude.
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Unread postby yargs7 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:05 pm

DON'T BUY INTO THAT GARBAGE SWERB. TRESS IS GOING TO BE A BUCKEYE FOR THE REMAINDER OF HIS COACHING CAREER. PERIOD.

TROY SMITH WILL BE A GOOD NFL QB, BUT IF I WERE A BROWNS FAN, I'D BE PRAYING THEY DON'T DRAFT ANOTHER SKILLED PLAYER.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:37 pm

From a straight financial and "win back the fan base" perspective, I can't not see the Browns at least trying to woo JT outta CBus.

Let's just put it this way. With how far things have fallen, Kirk Ferentz and Joe Thomas aren't going to put asses in seats.

I can't see JT ever leaving Columbus. But nothing in sports surprises me anymore.
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Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:39 pm

Aside from 1 and 2 the rest of that post in no way says how this is any kind of issue for Tressel.

Regarding point 6.) I am not sure how much J.T. cares about Randy Lerner's revenue.

The post is fluff. I wouldnt discount Tressel to the Browns entirely, but I do not think it would be a good fit for either.



Now, if I were Troy Smith, I would hunt this dude down and kick his ass for point 7 and implying that he has "nearly Michael Vick type talent." This comment alone undermines any credibility or point in the post. Aside from speed, Michael Vick has no talent. Oh, but Troy Smith is fast and black, so he must be Michael Vick, right?

I am so tired of that comparison, mostly because it based largely on skin color and not on the actual play style and talent of the player. I have watched Smith very closely over the years and if I had to compare him to any pro QB it would be John Elway.

Before someone gets stupid here, I am not saying Smith is as good as Elway (an NFL hall of famer) just that they have similar styles now. Both are very accurate passers, effective game managers, clutch players, and have the capability to use their legs to make big plays AS A LAST RESORT. Troy is not going to come to the NFL and try to run an option-pass scheme, he is a pocket passer who will not be afraid to use his legs to buy a few extra seconds to throw down the field or pick up a critical third down.

That sounds a lot more like Elway to me.
Last edited by furls on Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Guest » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:42 pm

First off, I agree that Tressel isn't going anywhere...and shouldn't go anywhere.

Now the real problem is that the Browns will probably be picking in the top five. But not high enough to draft Joe Thomas at OT.

So what are their needs, and who do they get?

Big, BIG needs at OL, RB, QB, DL.

Is Sam Baker, Jake Long, or Levi Brown good enough to take at #3 or #4?

In a 3-4 defense, is ANY DL worthy of a #3 pick?

I really think they need to hit Free Agency hard, and then go Best Available in regards to a position in need...and I don't think Troy Smith, as great as he was/is, is a Top Three talent. How could the Browns really pass up an Adrian Peterson or Marshawn Lynch? (Shades of passing on LDT for Gerrard Warren)

Personally, I'd love to see them trade down, and then pick up Smith in the middle of the first round and then have either another low first round pick or high second round pick so that they'd get Troy and a guard for certain...plus either another lineman (O or D-Line) or CB.
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Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:45 pm

Think we could get a first round pick for Edwards?
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Unread postby gdbenz » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:53 pm

Rich:

I don't think the Tressel to Cleveland rumors have much traction. I've never had the sense that Tressel has that need to prove himself at the NFL level. Moreover, he's paid extremely well already at the college level so the incremental difference between OSU and the Browns is likely minimal. College coaching has its share of hassles, to be sure, but not like he'd face in the pros.

All that being said, I do see owner Randy Lerner making a pitch for Tressel. It's the kind of thing a novice like Lerner thinks he needs to do to get the fans back. I think if that overture is made, Tressel rejects it. My sense is that his legacy, like that of his father, is at the college level.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:58 pm

Gary, first off ... welcome to the boards. And welcome to The Blurbs. Nice opening salvo column today.

I tend to agree with you. I will say though, it's not money that worries me. Even if tOSU doesn't rip up and rewrite his contract again, the difference will be minimal.

Three things worry me ...

1. Randy will make the effort

2. JT refuses to publicly deny this

3. The opportunity to resurrect the team he grew up watching as a boy, and become immortalized as one of the greatest coaches in sports history in the process
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Re: The Argument FOR Tressel/Troy Smith To The Browns

Unread postby The Score » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:04 pm

3.The Troy Smith to Cleveland is a no-brainer on several levels.

A. He's from cleveland
B. His stock is rising...first a projected third round pick, then mid second, then late first, and currently to the mid first round or so.
C. Cleveland desperately needs a quarterback who is--poised, mobile, accurate, and ready to play now in a pro set offense.


Couldn't these same remarks almost be said about Charlie Frye circa March of 2005?
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:14 pm

Great point Score ...
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Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:39 pm

Charlie Frye was never projected to be mid first round.
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Unread postby The Score » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:54 pm

Charlie Frye was never projected to be mid first round.


Projected by who?

There were multiple mock drafts that had Frye going in the first to Green Bay and just about everyone mentioned him at the Browns second round pick if he lasted that long.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:31 pm

Frye was consistently projected as a late first/early second round pick.

At the Browns party I was at, I disticntly remember everyone being horrified he was still on the board at the top of the third.
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Unread postby gdbenz » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:47 pm

Rich:

As for JT not denying his interest, what is there to deny? Regrettably, as I write this, the Browns still aren't looking for a new head coach. For JT to even comment in any fashion would be inappropriate on several levels.

As for Frye, I won't jump on the Bill Livingston bandwagon just yet. Frankly, it's hard to know whether Frye is the answer. The offensive line is so bad that it's impossible to judge Frye adequately.

The poor play of the offensive line does highlight how good of a job Grantham is doing. We'd all agree that the defensive backfield has every bit the injury issues as does the offensive line. Yet Grantham is squeezing the last drop of talent out of marginal players while the offensive line (and the backs who are blocking) continue to peform poorly under any and all circumstances.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:08 pm

As for JT not denying his interest, what is there to deny? Regrettably, as I write this, the Browns still aren't looking for a new head coach. For JT to even comment in any fashion would be inappropriate on several levels.

Good point Gary. However, a quote somewhere along the lines of Charlie Weis's "I'll be here till I die or they fire me" would put me and the rest of The Buckeye Nation a little more at ease. Honestly, I agree with just about everything you're saying, and also believe that we shouldn't have anything to worry about.

The poor play of the offensive line does highlight how good of a job Grantham is doing. We'd all agree that the defensive backfield has every bit the injury issues as does the offensive line. Yet Grantham is squeezing the last drop of talent out of marginal players while the offensive line (and the backs who are blocking) continue to peform poorly under any and all circumstances.


I also agree that Grantham has done a very good job this season, and that some of the fans piling on Grantham in the wake of yesterday's debacle are misguided. I'd really like to see TG return, though I do feel that he's still too much of a risk (from almost solely an age perspective) to look at as a head coach option. Especially for a franchise that simply cannot afford to swing and miss on another head coach.

As for Frye, I won't jump on the Bill Livingston bandwagon just yet. Frankly, it's hard to know whether Frye is the answer. The offensive line is so bad that it's impossible to judge Frye adequately.


As if the teams QB play has not been frustrating enough on it's own ... even more frustrating is the fact that this teams matador OL has made it genuinely impossible to get true reads on the signal callers we've had here. On Frye, in August, I said I would need 8-10 games before even thinking of passing judgement.

I just don't see it with Charlie though. Maybe if you give him an OL, and a couple years of actual coaching and learning behind a veteran QB and a legitimate QB coach ... maybe. But right now? Or next year? I can't see him being a winning starting QB. I'd take him any day as our backup. Forget the 4 INTs yesterday, the holding on to the ball too long.

The most scathing indictment to me was in the final drive of the Steeler game. After completing a long pass down the middle of the field, with a timeout left and 20 seconds on a ticking clock ... it took Frye 7 full seconds to realize that calling a TO was the no brainer split decision needed there. And it cost us another shot at the end zone to win that game. I just don't think Charlie's got it between the ears right now. Add that to a coaching staff that has him scared out of his mind to throw picks, and a constant siege from opposing defensive linemen - and you eventually are going to get disaster performances like yesterdays.

At the very, very least ... the team has to bring in a very viable guy to compete with him. I am in much more in favor of that being a veteran, and using all the 1st day picks on OL and DL.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:31 pm

There were multiple mock drafts that had Frye going in the first to Green Bay and just about everyone mentioned him at the Browns second round pick if he lasted that long.


I was talking more in terms of talent. Frye was projected to go that early because he was the third best QB in a very weak year for quarterbacks.

I think it is a stretch to compare the skills, talent and accomplishments of Frye to what Troy Smith has done.
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Unread postby The Score » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:38 pm

There were multiple mock drafts that had Frye going in the first to Green Bay and just about everyone mentioned him at the Browns second round pick if he lasted that long.


I was talking more in terms of talent. Frye was projected to go that early because he was the third best QB in a very weak year for quarterbacks.

I think it is a stretch to compare the skills, talent and accomplishments of Frye to what Troy Smith has done.

The only comparison made was in respect to the reasons for Smith that were given in this thread.

Personally, I think Troy is a much better player than Frye. I wouldn't draft him in the 1st or 2nd rounds if I was the Browns GM though.
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Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:29 pm

It is pretty obvious that the Browns need a lot of stuff:

Coach
QB
OL
NT/DE

In my honest opinion they need the top two the most, but I am not sure that a young kid out of college is the right choice. This team needs a serviceable veteran to come out and get the shit beat out of him next year, I think Jake Plummer will be seeking employment. He is inconsistant, inaccurate, and has never done much to "lead" a team, sounds like a perfect fit!

Smith is definetly worthy of a 5-15 pick, but he is not what the Browns need. I really think, based on the way he can run a spread and read through progressions, that he can be a Drew Brees like player.

As for head coach, the Browns have an attitude problem right now and no veteran leadership. They need to bring in a hardass coach with NFL credibility. Word on the street is that Marty Schottenheimer will be unemployed this off season, could we see a return of Marty? I think he would be a good fit.

OL has to be the first priority in the draft. If they can get a super star tackle with their third pick (I think they may actually be bad enough for the rest of the season to get Thomas) that would go a long way. The return of Lecharles and shifting shaffer to right tackle and all of a sudden the line does not seem that bad. You can get pretty good guards in the third or fourth round.

If the Browns cannot get a supreme O-tackle than they should get Alan Branch with their top five pick. He is only going to move up the board. He has the size (330lbs) to play NT in a 3-4 and the speed to stay on the field for pass rush. Has a pretty good motor too. I hate talking so highly of a scUM player, but I think he may be the best NT to come out in a couple of years.
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Unread postby S4Aero » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:15 pm

The most scathing indictment to me was in the final drive of the Steeler game. After completing a long pass down the middle of the field, with a timeout left and 20 seconds on a ticking clock ... it took Frye 7 full seconds to realize that calling a TO was the no brainer split decision needed there.


While (I might add) everyone in the stadium was screaming "time out!" the second the play ended.

I lauded the pick of Frye almost two years ago, but like most of you, have come to really doubt Charlie's ability to produce at the pro level. Whether this is a function of coaching, OL play, necessary professional growth, none, or all of the above is yet to be determined, but, how long do we go down this road.?

This team is up to its eyeballs in crap now, and Charlie is caught right in the middle. Once again, a young, inexperienced QB has been thrown to the wolves behind an OL that couldn't protect him from The Little Sisters of the Poor. The good news for him is that he made more money in the last two seasons than he is likely to make the rest of his life bussing tables, so I don't feel too sorry for him.

I do feel sorry for us. We're about to enter BTNG ver. 4.0, and there are no guarantees that v 4.0 will be any better than ver 1,2 or 3.
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